Double Standards

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Currently, even though they should be treated the same way, that in itself starts to spark. And I know we had some behind the scenes. I wish I wish you guys and ladies could have seen it, but nevertheless, that's what we're here to do, to have that conversation. Where do we start? Where do we start with double standards? [00:00:22] Speaker B: Well, I think, honestly, the starting point that a lot of people look at for double standards is like sexual prowess. So a man who have ten women, you're seen as a general, you're seen as demand, whereas a woman who may have ten men, otherwise it is more seen as demeaning, and you're seen as less than. So I think that that is one of the double standards that we usually comes up, one of the conversations that usually comes up when we talk about double standards. [00:00:55] Speaker A: But this is ten women sorry? This is ten men on the trot, as in during a specific time, not necessarily what ten men in terms of has span so far. In terms of I think what they're saying now is called the body count. [00:01:06] Speaker B: Yeah. I don't think it even has to be at the same time, but just in general. Now, if a woman has had ten partners over any period of time, sometimes it's seen as, oh, God, you have. [00:01:20] Speaker C: Been around the block, she's for the. [00:01:21] Speaker B: Streets, that kind of thing. [00:01:23] Speaker A: Double standard. [00:01:24] Speaker B: Yeah. But on the other side, if a man has had ten sexual partners, is different to our blind experience. [00:01:33] Speaker C: Well, in terms of that, and I know people would view it like that. [00:01:39] Speaker A: Right. [00:01:39] Speaker C: But it brings another thought in my mind that men naturally are polyamorous by nature. [00:01:50] Speaker A: Okay. [00:01:52] Speaker C: How much sperms that we carry carry millions of sperm. 150,000,000 once your sperm count as well. [00:01:58] Speaker A: Right. [00:01:59] Speaker C: So if you do, by average, what is the world's population? How much is 6 billion. Okay, so if each man is carrying 150,000,000 sperm, it roughly may take about how many men to impregnate all the women in the world? Probably about 1015. I don't know. Probably the math, when you look at that, this is a conversation that the wider public is not really ready to have. Men being polyamorous by nature is not to say that we're free to do what we want to take advantage of women. And I'm a dan. I want to hurt this woman, and I'm having sexual intercourse with that woman and that woman. But naturally we are. And when you look at history, Kings, it was a norm. It was a standard to have more than one wife. And it was not just about fulfilling a sexual desire and a fantasy. It was a matter of your economics and also sexual transmutation, because sexual energy is creative energy. We're talking about double standards, but when you think in terms of a man having different partners, I think for us men today, we don't understand the power that has been given to us and we waste our life source, right? So it is not wrong, but we misuse it because we do understand it. So, yes, I do agree that women, every month one egg is released, so you can only carry one or two or three children at a time. [00:04:01] Speaker A: I think we're going on a real biology because, Ken, you're talking about all men, and they have some men probably listening to this now going, but I know polyamorous. [00:04:14] Speaker D: Let me jump in here, right? I'm going with the definition you had first, right? Which groups are treated differently, and a definition that I saw was an unfair principle or values applied to different groups of people. So we're going with a common theme of unfair. Then if I come in with, ken, what you was indicating there about biology, right, is it that we treat people unfair based on biology? I put in that question out first, which of course would carry us into troubled waters because all men are not created equally, all women are not created equally. And I actually had fun researching this topic because it helped me become more truthful with myself. I'll tie it in because in one of my research pieces, the question was held, is it a double standard or is it hypocrisy? And I love that, because when me thinking about it, I have different standards for different people, whether you're male, female, et cetera. And for me to expect anyone to hold my standards is hypocrisy to expect, even for me, to be treated by my own standards. Because if you have your standards, I cannot expect my standards from any one of you. So for me, first I had to establish what is my standard and then realize how I treat people based on my standard and then understand that people coming from somewhere different. [00:05:50] Speaker A: But in saying that your standard is what we're talking about here today not specifically your standard, but if I take a particular role now, I don't want to stray from the part of sexual prowess, because that's a big one, right? But I just want to say, with regards to our standard, if I tell myself I'm with my partner and I want my partner to be fit and looking good. But right now, as it stands, unfortunately, I know as it stands, in a six pack, not the six pack I want, but I'll probably eventually get there, just say, everybody calm down, calm down. I'll eventually get back there. But for now, hypocrisy and double standard to me are one and the same, because my standard is hypocritical and I want something from someone else that I'm not delivering. I'm not up to mark. This is what we had to have a conversation. [00:06:47] Speaker C: Once your partner is comfortable with it, I don't see anything wrong with it, right? [00:06:52] Speaker A: If they're comfortable, if they're comfortable, they might just say, Listen, I love him. Prior to my son, he was, but now he let himself go, literally. That also includes the pants had to be let loose a little bit more. But I am saying to you that and we're just using that as an example to get started in terms of what I may want. Because remember, we spoke about the difference between discrimination and preference. Right. And Johansi, just to bring in again, this was somebody behind the scenes conversations that we were having where a woman may want something. Like a woman might say I don't want no short man, I want a tall man. And a man might turn around now and say, well, I don't want to overweight woman. Right? So a woman says she don't want no short man preference. A man says he don't want to overweight woman discrimination. [00:07:53] Speaker C: He don't want a big girl or. [00:07:55] Speaker A: A fat, but that's then you're afraid. [00:07:58] Speaker C: To use the word fat. But let me tell you something but that is a preference too. So how can you say that's discrimination? I don't agree with that. [00:08:05] Speaker A: But that's what we talk about, double standard. In terms of the double standards. Double standards are broad topic, as we said, right, right. It's the outlook is it because it. [00:08:14] Speaker C: Because it because it has to do with gender. So because it's a woman, the short men can feel discriminated too. [00:08:23] Speaker A: This is what we say, a double standard. [00:08:26] Speaker D: So maybe we should ask the question who sets these double standards? Because when you're saying somebody crying discrimination are going somebody, or the they say the proverbial they somebody or somebody's crying discrimination. So where now is the source or where does this double standard come from? I would say this my guess, the double standard comes from whoever has the loudest voice. Okay, that's for me. Where would you all say the double standard comes from? [00:08:54] Speaker C: And do you think that of course, women will always be favored in discussions like this because they are viewed as the weaker vessel, not necessarily the weaker sex, because women are strong, naturally, because I don't think any one of us here could understand what it takes to give birth. [00:09:17] Speaker A: Of course, I was just about to say, as far as I'm concerned, females are stronger, gender strong. If we look I know men probably. [00:09:26] Speaker C: Going, no, I think their tolerance for pain a little bit higher, threshold is high. And some would disagree with us, but not everybody is the same. Not everybody is the same. But you would find that as we go along and as we move along and as the world progress, depending on how you look at it, you're finding that more of these discussions and the outcome is being favored towards women because for many years they've been sidelined. They've been put in the back burner, and it doesn't make it right. And you cannot tell me, as you mentioned, Robert, that a woman's preference for a taller man and my preference to have a slender or not, an overweight woman, as you would say, is no discrimination, right? [00:10:22] Speaker D: Who is saying that? [00:10:24] Speaker A: But it doesn't matter who is saying it, because whoever it's coming from, that person is coming from a perspective or a viewpoint or position of a double standard, which is hypocrisy. And that's what we're talking about, okay? It doesn't have to be a group. So say, for example, when you talk about being polyamorous, right, in terms of in the same conversation, we talk about double standards. And the understanding of double standards in this context, in this conversation is all about hypocrisy. And you know when you're talking and you're talking but you really forgot why you brought up a point in the first place. And that's what's happening to me right now. The fact that I had a point that I was trying to jump and I'll get to. [00:11:07] Speaker B: Well, I have a question. [00:11:09] Speaker A: While I group exhaust, let's talk about. [00:11:11] Speaker B: The whole polyamorous, right? Do you abide by it? Is it something that if you ask. [00:11:20] Speaker C: Me personally if I'm practicing it right now, no, I'm not. But based on my research and history will record that kings who have lived before and it was a norm. Polygamy was something normal. It wasn't something to be frowned upon. Once we understand our history, it gives a clearer understanding of who we are and how to charter the way forward. Now as I mentioned before, being in a polygamous relationship is more than just having fun sexually and having sexual partners. It's much more than that. As a man, if you cannot satisfy and take care of these women that you're with, whether two or three or how many of them and not just sexually, emotionally, financially, spiritually you have no business. You're wasting time. [00:12:19] Speaker A: But are you willing to accept are you willing to say on the other end for the woman to be polyamorous. [00:12:26] Speaker C: That'S not a nature, but how we. [00:12:29] Speaker A: Determine what's in their nature? [00:12:34] Speaker C: Okay, well, all right, a woman decides I would say this to be fair. I wouldn't have a problem with it. I wouldn't have a problem with it. But of course, a woman may feel uncomfortable. But if a woman chooses to, then that's her choice. [00:12:51] Speaker A: But why would she feel uncomfortable? What's the difference in terms of the setup to say we have these conversations. [00:12:57] Speaker C: And they're a woman like that, but. [00:12:58] Speaker A: We have people that say, listen, a man cheats because he's just out there, whether it's to get a body count or to ego and all these other things. There are different reasons why they say men cheat, right, or go out there and explore and become polyamorous or polyamorous by nature. But they say women, it's different because if they go with somebody else, it's an emotional attachment. So it's a bit deeper. There had to be something or some reason. But who are we really to say at this point by nature that they simply also don't want to know. They're looking for the strongest man out there. They're looking for that. [00:13:33] Speaker C: So we have to recognize Robert and the rest of the panel, is that as human beings, we have been given choice. We can choose. We are only the only creation that has that ability to choose, right? And who am I? And that's what happened in our type of relationships that we're in, we always feel a sense of ownership. We own you and you can't do this and you can't do that. Right? And I want us to think differently. So if a woman decides that she wants to have more than one partners, that's a choice. [00:14:17] Speaker A: Correct? [00:14:18] Speaker C: It's up to me if I would accept that you bring in Harry, you bring in Joel, you bring in double standard. And Robert, I have to accept that. [00:14:28] Speaker D: Now, why is it as a double standard? [00:14:30] Speaker A: Because the double standard is you're saying yes, you have to accept it. So for example, like we no. [00:14:38] Speaker D: So. [00:14:39] Speaker A: You have to choose it's. Like me, if I'm saying I'm bringing by the body analogy, I am not in a state of being fit at the moment. Right. And I want someone who's fit the double standard. There is that I must be okay with her also wanting somebody that's fit. So if I'm expecting her to be in a fit state and she also wants in terms of by choice, then it's hypocritical. So if you are saying that you are polyamorous, right? Yes, of course. Everything is choice. When a woman says no is no, it's choice. I am saying to you in your particular instance, if you have admitted that you are polyamorous and the woman herself has also decided to go out. [00:15:25] Speaker C: That's what I'm saying. So if she decides to do that, it's up to me whether or not I can live and accept that, right? [00:15:35] Speaker A: No, but that's a double standard. [00:15:37] Speaker C: But a woman now has to be comfortable with my position and the relationship. So obviously you wouldn't be with someone who is uncomfortable with that type of arrangement, which is our natural habitat or nature, as it were. So for me, I would want to be now comfortable. Am I comfortable? Am I mature enough to understand that, hey, you know what? I am sharing this woman do sodo likes. [00:16:05] Speaker A: So Ken, what is good for the goose must be good for the gander. [00:16:10] Speaker C: No, listen, so are you asking me if I am willing to be in a relationship where I am sharing a woman with Robert, Jewel and Larry? Right. [00:16:21] Speaker A: But if they're with Robert, chances are they don't want to be with. [00:16:31] Speaker D: What exactly you're asking in terms of a double standard? Because you're saying what you're seeing as a double standard if the woman wants to be with more than one man. Right. [00:16:43] Speaker A: We talk about women in general here. We're saying that we start off the conversation. Ken, in his opening salvo, started off saying that men are polyamorous, right. And I'm saying to you that women where is the proof or the biology and apart from the sperm count, to say that women aren't the same way as well? And therefore is it a double standard? Men are okay to say, sleep with several women, but if the woman does it no, that's where we come up with the topics of slot as opposed. [00:17:16] Speaker C: To I want to interject here very quickly. Yes. Polygamy or being in a polyamorous relationship is not just about sex. [00:17:24] Speaker A: I want this to be but it's part of it. [00:17:26] Speaker C: It's part of it. Right. So it's not just about that alone. When you think about polygamy, we always think about yeah. Having monosexual. It's much more than that. Okay, so let's establish that because you. [00:17:37] Speaker A: Made reference to in the past king Solomon and King David and other people. But I'm saying, too, they had concubines. [00:17:44] Speaker C: Yes. [00:17:45] Speaker A: So it was still about sex history. [00:17:48] Speaker C: Record that the women back there, they wouldn't have two, three, four or five men. [00:17:55] Speaker A: We don't know that. We don't know that. You don't watch Netflix. [00:17:59] Speaker D: The kings were allowed that because they were kings. So the standard was standard. The standard was different. [00:18:07] Speaker C: Right. [00:18:07] Speaker D: Because a man who had a different statue in society wasn't allowed that. You see him because he couldn't provide. We do approve for that. Yet a king, because he's king, was allowed certain things. Let's go with the concubines and a woman. [00:18:25] Speaker A: Right. [00:18:25] Speaker D: Other people were allowed different things because they had a different status. So there's a difference of standard and a difference of status, which is what we're talking about, which is it's double or even different. And I'm agreeing with you that the kings got that. But that doesn't necessarily mean that men are polyamorous or that men should be polyamorous. [00:18:46] Speaker C: Okay, right. [00:18:46] Speaker D: Because the standard is different. Just like I would say, even in society a man use men maybe with a certain amount of money, a certain amount of status in society are allowed. Like we go with women, certain things than a man who doesn't have because let's say a man is a movie star, just using that example, movie star, music, et cetera. If you hear he have five women, you might think, well, dies, whoever it is. But then if another man does it, somebody might say, well, worry boy who he feel he is. So again, it's based on that. There's a different standard for different men. So I'm agreeing with you that it is a double standard and maybe it could be hypocrisy is the same thing, just a different standard. People want what they want. [00:19:35] Speaker C: I want to say this quickly before you made a comment, Robert, especially for the ladies in particular who are viewing my statements, is not to justify infidelity or giving excuses to men, because I don't believe it. I believe in honesty. So if you are of that belief, be upfront, don't deceive people and don't lie. I want that to be clear. So if you believe in something, express that to your significant other. [00:20:09] Speaker B: Give them a choice. [00:20:10] Speaker A: Give them a, give them a choice as well. [00:20:13] Speaker C: And there were folks who would say, okay, well, generally not just men. And I want to extend it not just men, but human beings by nature are polyamorous because we don't eat the same foods every day, we don't go the same places every day. Because we like choice, we like variety, right? So of course to think that to commit to one person or to be with one person for the rest of your life may be somewhat of a bondage situation. I'm just putting out ideas, agree for people to think outside of what has been fed to us all these years. [00:20:50] Speaker A: I want to move on from because this is a big topic and we could actually spend the entire conversation here for this particular manhood talking about it. Because again, as we continue in the many conversations that we will have, it will come up time and time again as we have different iterations, different variations of the particular topic and of course stories. And I would say just to close off that particular conversation and move on to things like sexual harassment, equality, other big topics like that. I was watching this podcast and the guy asked the woman well, actually, two or three women, and he said, if the average guy goes into a club and is trying to get laid trying to get a date trying to get what? Netflix and chill all the other they, he asked them, do you agree that it's difficult or more difficult for a man, the average man, than a woman? And they all agreed, yes. So if it is more difficult for a man, the average man, not a topper topper as they say, or a movie star or any of these things, therefore what they're achieving is then difficult. And if it's difficult, it must be respected. Because if it's easy, it won't be respected because everybody can do it. So therefore, if it's to be respected and this whole thing came about because women were saying if they went with 100 men, they would be called a slut. If a man went with 100 women, he'd be called a stud. So what he was trying to show, and again, this is not my opinion, this is just me relaying a story, right? That the reason why men get that that kudos is purely because to achieve, sleeping with 100 women as an average man is a very difficult task as opposed to a woman doing it. So I'm just leaving that as unless you all want to say something. Really. [00:22:47] Speaker B: One thing I wanted to say about why I believe it's a double standard with clubs is woman free before eleven because I find I pay. [00:22:55] Speaker A: But let me face as a man when you hear that yourself, I'm not going to what is it? Bungie said post office not an early male. So therefore, if I know women are free and I know women going to be there, men will come vice. [00:23:11] Speaker B: But honestly, that's one of the situations that we grew up with. [00:23:14] Speaker A: They're no normal ladies, two for one special. [00:23:17] Speaker B: But you, as a man, you had. [00:23:18] Speaker C: To pay full price. A key that could open many locks, a master key, right. But if you have a lock that could be opened by any key, they provided no kind of safe security there. So I guess what you're saying there, there is a bit of merit to it, I guess. But it all depends on how you look at it. And funny enough, let me share with you a story, something that happened to me recently. I had a boat cruise on the harbor master my boat, red wine and waves. So I was doing a set hype soca set nyla, blackman and skinny. Fabulous. This song, Wheelie Song, come up left from the DJ area, stand up on a cooler. I'm going to shoot off already because real vibes. And I made a joke just in the heat of the moment. Just in the moment, I said, Listen, I feel so good. I feel like I could sing and do my work in my Jockey shows, real people laugh. Kiki, kiki. But as much as people laugh, there were three women. Hold on. [00:24:18] Speaker B: They take out a dog whistle and. [00:24:20] Speaker C: Try to unbuckle my belt and zip down. So I had to be pulling mic in one hand and pulling up and pulling up my pants. Eventually I came down from the cooler, right? And when I reach home afterwards is back and out, right? Because so I'm saying to myself, I said, But I didn't pull up a but he encouraged it. So I said to her, I said, if it was any female DJ, let's say Tamara Williams or the Duchess or DJ Charlotte or whoever, ECT. And they did that or made a comment similar to that, you wouldn't find three, four men looking to grab underway because you're getting correct. Exactly. Right. Apart from that, during carnival time. Right. So I take care of my body ever so often, so no pinch I would get. [00:25:20] Speaker A: Exactly. But you won't take a wine behind a woman is like. [00:25:28] Speaker C: Right. If I go to report that you. [00:25:37] Speaker D: Said what you're supposed to do, right. When you was experiencing that harassment, what you wanted to do? [00:25:44] Speaker C: What I wanted to do, yeah, what. [00:25:45] Speaker D: You wanted to do. [00:25:46] Speaker C: I wanted to leave because I felt violated. I felt violated. [00:25:50] Speaker B: Because they're doing your job, too. [00:25:52] Speaker C: I did my job. Right. [00:25:57] Speaker A: So the double standard there and was brought up recently in one of the tapings of A Woman's Worth, which is the other one that GML has. We have, of course, the men sharing, and then we have a woman's perspective as well. And a big part of that was talking about women when they go out and they dress a particular way, a lot of women say we dress in for ourselves. But the design and fashion, which is a whole other topic we're not trying to go into today, but the guest at the time was speaking about when they whine and dance and so on a certain way, and it's part of their culture. They don't know man coming up behind them. But yet still, as you've experienced, I'm sure a lot of us have experienced how easy it is and acceptable in that environment, woman to come and tell or rub your chest or doodoo. [00:26:46] Speaker D: But when that happens, what is I. [00:26:49] Speaker A: Think I will tell you from my perspective. Right? No, it doesn't. What I would do, Johansey, is and I will tell you any moment, because, of course, I recognize I'm a public figure. I would recognize that, okay, well, I don't want to I don't want to offend anybody or come across snobbish, in a way. But also, it kind of catches you off gun. You move with it. Because even the thought of me telling somebody else that or reporting that is not something that we do. [00:27:24] Speaker C: I have had ladies grab my penis without reservations and feeling me up. [00:27:29] Speaker D: What you did when it happened, what. [00:27:31] Speaker C: You did I said, Excuse me. [00:27:35] Speaker A: No, you didn't. [00:27:41] Speaker C: Because a part of you is like, what's going on here? Right. Obviously, generally, if you're having a wrong table like this, it will stroke ego, but it doesn't make it right. [00:27:50] Speaker A: It doesn't make it right. What would you do? You answer, It will stroke ego. [00:27:56] Speaker D: If you did, you're saying it will stroke ego, but it doesn't make it right. By whose standard is not right? Because if it's stroking ego, that means you're okay with it. Even using that would mean you're okay. [00:28:09] Speaker C: Well, it depends on the individual's personal philosophy and principles that they live by. [00:28:15] Speaker A: Yes. [00:28:16] Speaker C: For me, I would tell you at one point in time, it probably would have like, yeah, boy, right? Yeah, boy. Right. But no, it's like, Yo, I value myself. You can't have access to me or access to my instrument of love and war like that. Right. [00:28:40] Speaker D: So that means your standard change. [00:28:43] Speaker C: Yes. [00:28:43] Speaker D: So you see how volatile or even dynamic standards are, and to even try to establish a standard, real ticklish, because as human beings, we are dynamic creatures all the time. My standard when I'm 16 wouldn't be the same thing as 25, et cetera. [00:29:01] Speaker A: It shouldn't be right. [00:29:02] Speaker D: It shouldn't be it shouldn't be right. Correct. Thank you for the correction. Therefore, even January, I could learn something, and by December, I learned something else. So understanding the dynamics of it is important and how you react. That's why I keep asking how you react. Because even if we go to sexual harassment, in some of the cases I've dealt with is based on attraction, right? Because different types of women if a woman grab you who you're attracted to versus a woman who you're not attracted to, you would have a different response. [00:29:34] Speaker A: Correct. We said we talk about sexual harassment. We come into that in a bit. But as you mentioned about flipping the script, if at the same time a woman comes and grab your rub your chest and you turn on a darling and you give a little copy yourself and you return a favor, problems? Problems? [00:29:59] Speaker D: You see, that depends if you're going by law. The law is one standard. There's no necessary interpretation. If the law says you cannot touch someone, I just give an example. You cannot touch someone without their permission in a private area. Let's say that's the law, no matter if a man does it to a woman or a woman, does it tell man the law says, that what I'm realizing. Double standard have nothing to do with the lawyer. The double standard have to do with what you think, of course, or what is accepted by maybe that culture, that room, or that company. [00:30:26] Speaker A: Well, as we said at the start, or any organization as well, because we could come down to another topic. Another subject that we're going to be discussing, of course, is equality. And that is all seen in certain cases as double standard. Men get paid more than women in certain instances, and that in itself is a whole conversation. So it might be by law, but double standards is what sometimes gets the law applied or gets the law discussed or even brought to the table in the first place. But as we talk about sexual harassment, which that is, let's take a case of in an organization, as we brought it up, a man goes up to a woman and says, wow, Gila, you're fine. You're looking real good in our dress. Now, the woman is attracted to the man, so therefore to her, like, thanks, a compliment. Another guy goes up and says, good morning, wow, you're looking really good. And I don't know what his disposition is or his body language is, but she not attracted him. He could be in front of HR, sexual harassment, or in her mind, this man disgusting, being offensive. So she mightn't report it, but she may be feeling that way. So it is, again, subject to interpretation, is a double standard, ultimately is a double standard based on you could receive it from one person because you're attracted, but to another person, offensive. It's offensive, correct? Yes. And the same thing I could be grabbed by somebody, but whether I feel good about it or not doesn't change the fact that if you were to reciprocate, what would be the consequences? What would be the environment? What could be perceived? So, for example, she could pass and give you a touch, and a man might be on another corner. So for. [00:32:19] Speaker C: Her. [00:32:19] Speaker A: It's almost like a level of double standard. But if you grab at that point or you pass back and you see the same woman and give her a touch and he fellas around or her girls around, you could be in some problems, serious problems, and in this case, some serious problems. So, again, I want to come back to double standard really comes down to hypocrisy and who and where it's received or felt by in particular. [00:32:52] Speaker C: But can it be changed? We talked about different scenarios in terms of the double standards and being hypocritical by nature. One of the point that I have to make sometimes in events, usually in large events, when you find that there are more women than men, which is more the case than the other way around, you find the woman just freely, you're going in men bathroom, normal. Normal. [00:33:22] Speaker A: You know why, though? You ever asked a woman why? For the most part, it's easier access one, and they always tell her the male bathroom, for the most part is cleaner. [00:33:30] Speaker C: Yes, I've heard that before. I've heard that before. And if we go into the ladies washroom, we are like, security we're doing here. Security. It just brought us back to my point is it because women, because of the attacks against women, how they have been held back and so many things that they were dealt with that conversations like these and generally things more favor women than men. Is this the case and how can it be rectified? [00:34:05] Speaker A: Well, we had a conversation I just want to bring up because I want to hear a point, because we haven't really heard from Joel, and I just seem to be the one rambling on, which is, as they say, it's my day job, right? So we have Gen Z's that we're talking about, and we also have I was watching a show and I was telling you all on Netflix, the Diplomat or something, and I looked at the woman on that time, not to give anything away, but to say, that a spoiler. The woman started to beat the guy because of something that he had shared or didn't share with her. And the security looked on and said basically everybody was laughing and chuckling about it. And that whole scene was comedic. It was meant to be comedic as she proper beat this guy, her husband. If the roles were reversed and he did that to her, what would be the automatic feel of that show? It wouldn't be comedic. [00:35:07] Speaker B: It would be a comedic. [00:35:08] Speaker A: In most of the shows that we see, when women give guys a shine up or a slap or something, it's always just blown off. And it was discussed, and they even made a joke of it in the other scene the next morning when he woke up and of course, he had what you call the shine of the black eye. And the guys, everything was in jest. But it's an acceptance. It's an acceptance that it's okay. But you know what it comes down to? It's still domestic violence. Whether that woman touches you and you like it or you go back to touch her, it's still not right. Wrong is wrong. [00:35:41] Speaker D: Well, I would say illegal first. [00:35:43] Speaker A: Well, illegal first between right or wrong. So you say not talking a lot. [00:35:46] Speaker D: Let me I agree with what you're saying. And you asked about if the double standards could be changed. And I was thinking about it, and maybe it could be if enough of a group who is being discriminated could be men in certain situations, could be women decide to act differently. So that's why I was asking how you reacted to it. Because let's say if we had a consistent reaction from men to being grabbed in carnival because stop the performance one time carnival, I hear, listen a lot of stories from men and men who generally uncomfortable. It's not that I like it. It was very uncomfortable situations, even in scenarios with women going into the men's room, because many men going through whatever they're going through the insecurity whatever, which they have the entitlement to, and a woman walking, right. I not even say, well, gents are coming in and discretion, one time they. [00:36:39] Speaker A: Come in by the urinal. [00:36:43] Speaker D: Right? Correct. It is based sometimes on the reaction states. And that's why I ask about it, because once there was a woman who pinched me on my bottom, right? And I remember feeling angry. That was the first thing I was angry because of her attitude of entitlement to do it right. And then I also felt violated. And I remember I turned around and I grabbed a hand. I said, don't ever do that again. And I don't know how my face was looking, but people around obviously realized something occurred, right. And she didn't want it to be known what happened. She just kind of said, okay, but I thought about it that way. If every man in a scenario reacted and I say grab the person hand, but let's say the seriousness of it, if whatever you feel violated by you stick to that standard, then there's a possibility things could change. [00:37:38] Speaker C: Well, I admire optimistic approach, but I think it will take about two or three generations to reverse the programming that takes place and is presently taking place where that is concerned. As Robert mentioned that there are movies and TV shows that depict that it's okay for women to do these things, and we laugh about it and we joke about it and not find it highly offensive. So in an isolated case once or twice and then by you grabbing and say, ever do that, they might call you, okay. [00:38:24] Speaker A: But what is the double step? Because in your case, you felt violated. But if in Ken's case he did not feel violated, it still doesn't change the fact about the double standard. Because what I'm trying to say, in your case, in both cases, had you done the same thing, the double standard there is the repercussions for you would be different to her. And that's what I'm saying. Violated or ego and I feel good like a woman do this or not. Like I said, reciprocated. We have a problem. And that's where the double standard comes in. [00:39:02] Speaker B: I was actually going to switch the conversation. [00:39:05] Speaker A: Yes. [00:39:06] Speaker B: So just you mentioned programming and something came to my mind. So, like, I was home with my little daughter, our little four year old trio, and our brethren was calling to ask me to lime. So I said, now by home at ICO, we hear and his response was, like a babysitter. Now. I was like, no, it's my child. And I think that I just want to throw in that in terms of double standards that, you know, sometimes men are applauded unaware and recognized for doing your fatherly role. Now, whereas in terms of taking care of a child or so on, whereas a woman sometimes is looked as, you have to do that. So like a father, if I say, I doc, I working from home today because my daughter sick or my son do have to go to school as opposed to so he's like, oh, you've been a good dad, or whatever. No, I'm just doing what I have to do as a father. Whereas a woman doing that is like it's expected. [00:40:13] Speaker A: Double standard. It's a double standard. [00:40:15] Speaker B: So like, that kind of double standard. I just feel as though, Jed, sometimes you're just doing what you're doing bare. [00:40:23] Speaker C: Minimum and the prevailing thoughts and ideas about what a man should be doing or what a woman should be doing. And our rules, we have been fed that and we have to unlearn and learn new things about how we're supposed to operate. And again, I want to try to answer my own question. Can it be changed? And as much as I'm very positive and optimistic, I think you as a man or woman, you have to take that full responsibility to set a philosophy and standard for your life. Right. But in terms of collectively, I believe it's far gone that we could change a whole pervading thought and idea that it will change overnight. It will not. [00:41:22] Speaker B: I don't think it will change overnight, but what we have seen so we all grew up in a generation where you're working in a place and the older men, you say, rail out of time and think to women, girl bombs, you looking good today, and stuff like that, right. And we now reach a time where we understand that that is wrong. We understand that a level of decorum and certain things you cannot see in the workplace and we have seen that change. It took some time, but we have lived in a generation where we saw that change. So possibly it is I'm not saying that it will, as you rightfully say, it wouldn't happen overnight. But as Joancy was saying, if enough is done, listen, we flip the script. [00:42:04] Speaker C: Women are more aggressive than men and they're getting away with it. And it's been accepted as the norm in society. [00:42:11] Speaker D: Who letting them get away with it? [00:42:13] Speaker C: Well, the powers that be, I guess. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but I have to kind of mix and mingle that in there. Because when you're finding that you're looking at movies and you're seeing that they're pushing a sudden agenda and TV shows and books, you'll question, is this a concentrated effort to put women in a particular way and feed that type of narrative? I just wonder it just observe. [00:42:44] Speaker A: I just want to say this is a conversation, as I said from the start, that we could be going on. And of course, we'll have to be discussing this in length in several other conversations that we would have. So I think if we could just give our closing thoughts to kind of wrap up and of course, we always look for the gem or the diamond from Johansei. Just what are some of your takeaways from the conversation here today? [00:43:09] Speaker C: Well, my takeaways is that anything that you focus on or pay attention to, you tend to have a greater level of understanding. And I think in order to address any situation, firstly, when it affects you personally or those around you, you need to have some level of focus and attention to it, to address it strategically and recognize what is within your scope and within your reach that you can change and what cannot be changed. And in light of all the discussions and the examples, I have come to the conclusion that the double standards and the hypocrisy that we are seeing, it will not take one or even two generations. And quite frankly, I don't know if it will ever change because there is no sign of it going back or balancing off. Right. I think as men and women, we need to take responsibilities for our own lives. We should have a philosophy that guides our life if we intend to make our life meaningful and to leave a legacy long after we have left the set. And I think you should have standards to yourself, and the standards that you set for yourself will and should determine how people treat you. So if you are comfortable as a man, a woman violating you, pinching you and you feel dies, are pips and you have not grown up and recognized that not everybody should have access to you, well, that's you you live your life how you want to live it. But as of me, I will live my life at a certain way because I have a goal and a standard and a direction that I'm heading into. So that's my take on this whole. [00:44:58] Speaker D: Double standard, well received double standards exist. And I suggest everyone both male and female, to understand whether it is the country, the culture, the company that you exist in, understand what is the double standard there, and then compare it, of course, to your own standard so you'll be able to navigate these dynamics in the most healthy way possible. [00:45:26] Speaker B: My takeaway is something that Joanne said a little earlier, where he was saying that within yourself you have standards, and the standards change. So something that you may agree with now or standard that you might have set for yourself now could change in a few months, dependent on new information that you get and stuff like that. So as we all realize that double standards do exist, there's a level of hypocrisy attached to it, and it's just setting standards for yourself and knowing what, as Ken was saying, knowing that what you're willing to accept for. Yourself and to ensure that you stay with what you're willing to accept for yourself. Set your high standards and live by that the best way you can well receive. [00:46:08] Speaker A: Gents you know, my takeaway would certainly be a double standard is simply that a double standard. There's no male or female. It's just a double standard. And, yes, as we discussed here today, there's choice in that. But the double standard comes as well as and you mentioned it, Joel, when you spoke about the expectation. So to a man, it's babysitting, or to your brethren, it's considered babysitting, but you're taking care of your child. So with regards to if you want a certain type of food, cook it yourself. If you see dishes in your sink, go and wash it. There's nothing like what a woman supposed to do in certain circumstances, what a man supposed to do. We're not talking about the whole provider versus the nurturer, talking about the double standard of wanting something for yourself, but not prepared. And in certain cases, I'm very guilty of that. I might want the wifey to start something off, whether it be fitness, I want to go to the gym, but I looking for her to make the step. Are you looking for that support or looking for her to make the first step? Even if it means doing something with my son, you're looking for her to start that off. And really and truly what it comes down to in introspection, it's that double standard of expecting something from someone that you yourself are not willing to give. And so, as we mentioned, there's a whole lot of conversation that happened here today, some really great conversations, some great nuggets. It's something that we'll be continuing to talk about over and over again, because one thing we didn't touch in its entirety or even really get time to ventilate is equality, where women are saying they should be paid the same in sport or they should be participating in all sport. There's all those things that are considered, in certain cases, double standards when hypocrisy, and there are reasons for that. There's a generational thing gen Z is, from what I understand, in terms of conversations where they don't look at body count, that generation Z aren't interested in those things. They are more about being able to be recognized. And so double standards is a very broad topic that I think really encompasses a lot and what we try to talk about here on Manhood and all that to say, the takeaway, the most important takeaway is if it's not right, is not right. So do unto others as you will have them do unto you. And even in that case, what you may want somebody to do to you might be what they want done to themselves. So again, is this all over the place when it comes to a double standard, but no is no. We come back to know the right thing is the right thing and the wrong thing is the wrong whether you accept it or not, whether you have it by choice, that's good for you. It's simply the wrong thing in many cases. Joel Johansey Ken. Always a pleasure. [00:49:06] Speaker C: Thanks for having me. Thanks for having me. [00:49:08] Speaker A: The next conversation, manhood, it there's so many topics so again, you have to tune.