Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: On our agenda to have that discussion. So there's no better way to get it out there and to have that discussion other than to have the discussion. So with me to my right, always a pleasure, Joel. Julian. Johan SEI iodik. And today she's not a man.
[00:00:17] Speaker B: Hi, guys.
[00:00:17] Speaker A: Certainly not our very own Janine Edwards, radio personality. Thank you so much for sitting in today.
You know, way better to look at than know. We'll keep it our secret here.
So Janine is joining us, of course, because of the nature of the topic that we're about to discuss, to give that opinion that, again, we are a few men. We're not talking to all men. We are few men talking to all men.
[00:00:49] Speaker C: Right?
[00:00:50] Speaker A: Or did I get that right?
[00:00:51] Speaker C: Nay is perfect.
[00:00:52] Speaker A: A few men talking to all men, I think. We're not talking on behalf of all.
[00:00:57] Speaker C: Men, but we have few men talking.
[00:00:59] Speaker A: To all men and women to everyone who would listen to these episodes. Because what we want to do is we want to get resolved.
We want change and change in a positive light. And every topic, every episode that we have a discussion on, you would find would overlap. A lot of times the conversations overlap. So one week we might be talking about mansplaining, another week we might be talking about double standards or domestic violence. You'd find that even though we are very specific on days like today talking about domestic violence, there's a lot of cross pollination. So once again, Janine, thank you so much for being here. It's certainly not an easy topic to discuss, but we need to talk the things that need to be talked.
So just really quickly, I like to open with always giving the definition that we find for domestic violence. And in this case, domestic violence, also known as intimate partner violence, is a pattern of behavior where one person in a domestic relationship uses physical, sexual, emotional, or psychological abuse to control and manipulate their partner. This can occur between spouses or partners, as well as between family members or people who live together. Domestic violence can take many different forms, including physical abuse such as hitting, punching, or choking. Sexual abuse such as forced sex or unwanted sexual contact. Emotional abuse such as name calling, put downs, and constant criticism, and psychological abuse, such as controlling behavior, isolation from friends and family, and threats of harm.
A lot in there. A lot in there. And a lot of misconceptions. A lot of misconceptions as to what's this? Because notice we start off by saying domestic violence, intimate partners. There's nothing about male on female, female on female, male on male, or even the fact that it doesn't always have to be where it's intimate relations apparently can be. If your brother is living with you and he's going through you're abusing him, all that is a form of domestic violence.
And so I want to use the occasion as well. We have our other episode that comes out that we'll be seeing soon called A Woman's Worth. And there were some really key topics that they brought up or subject matters that they brought up that really wowed me as to how deep domestic violence goes.
So I know we always depend on our subject matter expert here, johansey or, behavioral consultant, to take away this one.
[00:03:38] Speaker C: Firstly, I would like to simplify the definition a little bit, right? Domestic violence. So let's break down domestic. Domestic means within the home, within the house. And violence mean intent to hurt. So is the intent to hurt within the home or the house. So it could be physical because you could intend to hurt someone physically, you could intend to hurt someone psychologically, emotionally, financially, et cetera. But the intent to hurt for me is the important part because when speaking to someone, even the way you speak to them, you could have the intent to hurt.
I gave an example once, I think it was a couple and the husband said something and she picked up a piece of paper and she pelted at him. Of course, a piece of paper wouldn't do anything, but she said she imagined in her mind the piece of paper going through his head.
[00:04:35] Speaker A: So the intent was there.
[00:04:36] Speaker C: Yeah. Now, of course, it mightn't be classified as violence because he wasn't actually hurt. But even understanding where the seed of it comes from is an action intend to hurt waiting.
[00:04:49] Speaker D: Joel yeah. Well, intimate partner violence. I actually brought this book here vs. Sniper, do Mystic Miss. Everybody know vs. Nipole, obviously. Right. This is first novel and there's something I read in it and it just kind of showed me sometimes what we kind of take for granted in Trinidad. So I just read a little bit.
So these stories about a protagonist, a guy named Ganesh. So, Ganish. Now get married. He get married to a woman named Leela. So Leela continued to cry and Ganish loosened his leather belt and beat her. She cried out. Oh, God. Oh, God. He go kill me today's. Self. It was their first beating, a formal affair done without anger on Ganesh's part or resentment on Leela's. And although it formed no part of the marriage ceremony itself, it meant much to both of them. It meant that they had grown up and become independent. Ganesh had become a man. Leela wife was privileged as any other big woman. Now she too would have tears to tell of her husband's beatings. And when she went home she would be able to look sad and sudden as every woman should. And I was reading that and I was saying yeah, what my takeaway from it was is that unfortunately there are situations where couples may believe that this sort of violence a man beating his woman or vice versa is like a rite of passage. Or he became a man to something, to see mendy relationship. And the unfortunate thing is that I believe that there are a lot of relationships that people have, whether it be man, woman, otherwise, where there's this level of violence that takes place. And it is happening because for yourself, you either see it when you're growing up or you believe that this is something that we have heard it before. If you don't beat me, love that kind of thing.
This topic is not a topic that I believe needs to be taken lightly because I'm hoping that even in our conversations here and trying to scratch the civic or get into the topic of domestic violence, it might help somebody realize that you might could want better for yourself kind of thing.
So I believe that relationships is not easy because it's easy for us as individuals. When you hear somebody has been a victim of domestic violence, it's easy for us at the end of the day to say he could walk away, she could have walk away. That easy to see. But you don't know what everything is tied into it, what it means and what it may take to get out of that relationship.
[00:07:43] Speaker A: Janine, what's your take on that? You don't beat me to all of me?
[00:07:46] Speaker B: Well, I don't know. I've been a female in this country right now in 2023. It's a very scary thing to be personally. And I have had experiences with people that I love around me going through domestic violence. And what I can say is that people that find themselves, men and women that find themselves in this situation is usually they didn't think it would have been like that. And then what happens is the behavior, it continues. So it might start off as a cuff one day and it will escalate, and over time, you wouldn't really remember how life was before that. So as some people say, it's easy to leave. It's not easy to leave.
I've seen it firsthand and it's not easy to leave. The research says a person would leave seven times before they actually leave. So for the women that go through it in our society, when we point fingers and we say her eye blue or you see the marks on her neck or whatever the case is, everybody going through it. And people do realize it became toxic and they do realize, oh, well, I hope it would have get better and I hope things I hope he would have stopped treating us. I hope she would have stopped taking advantage of me like that. And people live in hope.
So it takes a while for them to realize that that hope, that feeling or that respect that you got way at the beginning, maybe in the courting stage, that hope for that behavior to come back is probably not going to return because you've allowed disrespect to come in to the relationship and to the bond. So it affects us, and I think it starts from young. As you said, if you see somebody beating your mom, if you see your dad beaten on your mom or your mom break up with her husband and she got her next boyfriend, and that next boyfriend is still beaten on your mom, she broke up with that guy, and you got an ex boyfriend. So you've seen now three different men beat your mom up.
You may grow up and be like, I would never hit a woman because I've seen what men did to my woman, to my mom. But you may grow up to think that it is okay because I've seen so many men do this to my mom. It must be okay. And this is how you really control the other person. And I think sometimes that's it. They want control.
I've heard very scary stories. I've seen girls that have been in the hospital because they nearly lost their eye and have broken arms. Women that were pregnant and got beaten with their kids inside their stomach from the father of the child. I've heard and seen some very horrific things in our country and I'm sure throughout the world. So where does it start? Where does it end is a good conversation to have. But we need to watch how we raise our men.
[00:10:57] Speaker A: So one of the things as we talk, part of manhood janine and again, thank you for being here and being open. I know you as a normally a very bubbly person, and clearly this topic is a heavy one and it touches all of us.
One of the things that we intend to do here is continue to have that conversation. And as I mentioned at the start, the topic in domestic violence will always come factor in to some of the other topics that we discuss. For example, toxic masculinity being one of those.
And the question is also perception. So in one case, someone might say, you don't beat me at all of me. That's an upbringing for what that woman perceives as love. So we look at in many ways how somebody is brought up, what they understand, as you just mentioned, if they see it on a continuous basis. But there's so many other areas of domestic violence that, for example, women living in fear, we hear. And these are just some of the things that I want to discuss here today. One in three women in Trinidad and Tobago go through domestic violence. However, what we also see is the male suicide rate is higher than the female female rate. And a lot of that is sometimes in the cases of men in situations of domestic violence and being victims and have no recourse. And that doesn't just mean the abuse of physical abuse, but in relationships where it's take because of the nature of the system, it's taken advantage of. And being accused of domestic violence, I can say in a situation in my earlier years of a situation of being accused of levels of domestic violence and was taken AGH by it. Like what are we speaking about? And then you start to realize there are levels where to one person it's accepted depends on the relationship with that particular person. And in another case, when you feel a certain way, it's toxic masculinity and all these other things start to stem from it. And the accusation once it's out there is immediate. It's immediate in terms of people lose family, they lose friends, they lose in terms certain cases, jobs, they might be arrested. And then you realize that what's happening here because immediately it's seen as the man is the perpetrator on an instant case. So just by the very basis of as I said, we heard in a woman's worth in a conversation they were having based on domestic violence initially this term gender based violence was seen as initially it's women being abused, but now it's being looked at on a holistic basis of its people being abused. And as we saw in the definition that I read earlier about the various levels, physical being one of the main ones that we speak about, but there's emotional and there's all these other financial there's all these other forms of abuse.
[00:13:55] Speaker D: Let me ask both you and you answer a question. So we know that gender based violence is not just the woman who is being abused, right. But you as a man, if you're in a relationship and your partner is physically abusing you, would you feel secure enough to go in a police station to report that?
[00:14:13] Speaker A: No. You're taking that as a man?
[00:14:15] Speaker C: Well, no. In 2023, yes, you will be. Yeah, maybe a few years ago. No, but no, because of all the education and I even had the privilege of doing some work with the TTPs and they have a lot of workshops for policemen, policewomen, police in general, physical.
[00:14:36] Speaker A: You're talking about physical abuse.
[00:14:39] Speaker C: So as a male being physically abused yes, I wouldn't.
[00:14:44] Speaker A: Emotional, which is the bigger one for men?
[00:14:48] Speaker C: To be honest, I'm not certain the law for emotional abuse, right. How the law treats with emotional abuse. And that's something we could do some research on, right? Because emotional abuse also comes into play dynamics, right. And how I grew up, let's say I grew up soft.
When somebody tell me something, I may take it as emotional abuse, but if I grew up hard, wherever she's saying, it don't really matter to me, right? So even the education part of it, especially like on the local station and stuff, if we could have those scenarios like these skits and stuff where people see the difference, I use in local stations too, but we could have on YouTube, we could have as many things as possible. So we could have the education part of it because that emotional abuse part so touchy. But if we go back with the definition I gave before, intent to hurt. So if you say something with the intent to hurt, if you do something or try to manipulate a situation with the intent to hurt, that's how you will know. So if you're a victim, if you feel hurt, I'm not saying it automatically is abuse, but if you feel hurt, then you should start questioning, well, why the person do it? Why did he do that? Or even for yourself, do the self introspection. And if it's consistent that I feel hurt or the person is attempting to hurt me or intent is to hurt me, then it could go in the realms of emotional abuse.
[00:16:11] Speaker A: So if the intent isn't there, it's not violence. So, for example, if for the case of your come home tight and for whatever reason he has an altercation, it doesn't have to be in physical blows. Sometimes, I don't know, in whatever scenario the person's hood, be it emotionally, financially, you're going to take our money or take his money, whatever the case may be, there's no conscious intent at that particular point. If there's a pattern, it's one thing, but at that particular point, at that stage, the person decides, I'm going to.
[00:16:46] Speaker C: Report you before report in a couple.
[00:16:52] Speaker A: We are council culture.
[00:16:53] Speaker C: On all forums, a conversation should be had. Right? I know. Especially if you go through family Court, they'll always put you onto a mediator first. And before you reach litigation, there's mediation to really go through, to realize, okay, what would this person intent, why this occurred, versus just going straight to now? If it's physical, that's different. We have proof of that. That goes straight to the law. But in terms of emotional, there should be some sort of mediation to properly understand the dynamics of things before going as far as accusing somebody of abuse either way.
[00:17:28] Speaker A: So, Janine, in a relationship, is there any scenario where you will accept any form of abuse or that you mightn't see it as abuse at that particular point, but like, you know what, this person had a bad day or is a one off, is a moment and not see it as a red flag? Is there any beat, any past, or not necessarily asking your personal something has happened in perspective.
[00:17:54] Speaker B: Well, yeah, things will start off as you say, I actually have a program going on. Do it now. Red flags on slam there. But things will usually start off like that. But the red flags are there. I think we just kind of put a little blindfold on and make an excuse here or there, but the signs are always there. I think we are just in love with being in love most of the time and in love with that fantasy that maybe you're not accepting of the reality, which is that this is maybe a very dangerous situation to get yourself involved in.
Yes, I've experienced some interesting relationships. And then you learn, you learn what you should and should not accept and what is love? And I think maybe what we could teach our children in school and primary schools and stuff, maybe what we could do, we could teach our kids to love themselves and what loving yourself means. And then that way, even if you had issues with your dad, even if you had issues with your mom and you never met your mom or you never met your dad, or they used to beat you or whatever the case is, at least you understand what to love yourself means. That you could love you before you love somebody else. And when you look to love somebody, then you'd know, hey, but that is respectful. That hurts in me. That couldn't be love.
So I think we have a long way to go.
[00:19:26] Speaker A: But do you think that women that you may hear in conversations are really living in constant fear? Or is it at that point when.
[00:19:35] Speaker B: These situations know women that have lived in fear? I do know women that have not gone to work, have taken many days and weeks off, and stop liming with friends and stop liming with family. I do know women that do live in the fair. I do know the financial part of stealing bank cards and jewelry and stealing stuff so you don't have your things, stealing your phone so you can't make a call. So I do. And I have seen for myself these things and they exist. And family members know they exist.
That's the thing in our country.
It's a cycle, man, because you know that that person is abusive. You know your brethren is abusive, girl. You know that it is here. It's just not going to say anything. You know it as men, we know in our cliques who is doing what? I went to align the other day and I saw a lady and she had a black eye. She has three kids for the guy, but I saw the black eye. I've never asked. Boys got black eye, black eye.
It's really hard to fall and hit yourself in your eye. It's really hard to walk into a door and hit your eye, forehead, your cheek. But to say I come from a nice punch to the head, right?
But as I said, looking at her and understanding that this is her situation, she's been there for 20 something years. She's bringing up two beautiful girls and a young man, and they're going to be seeing this. They're going to replicate this because they're going to think that it's normal because she's taking Alexa normal.
[00:21:19] Speaker A: But what about an abusive relationship? So in terms of both parties, because I've seen it both toxic relationship. Toxic relationship. Both are physical. So he ate in large, she felt in large one sometimes she felt in harder lash or doing things worse than the man, right.
Would that fall under domestic violence? And in that case, both parties have to report one another.
[00:21:44] Speaker B: Well, I don't know about the report and saying in Trinidad because well, because I would have had some experience with it. It is lovely to make a report, right? It's lovely, exactly. But to me a female making a report take a time because the step is not just to make the report. The step is to leave the situation.
To make a new report is not going to make the situation end. You have to pick up yourself, you may have to change your address, you may have to save your money, you may have to go by a family or friend, you might have to change a job. There's so many things to me before you even make that report. That report is just to make sure anything happening. Police could be on your side but you have to get yourself out of that situation because making a report and as I said, most of the time you make the report you're going to go right back to the situation.
[00:22:42] Speaker A: A self worth thing too because you.
[00:22:44] Speaker B: Don'T understand yet how it is to function without this treatment.
[00:22:48] Speaker A: Correct?
[00:22:49] Speaker B: You don't understand what it is to be treated nice. Somebody buy you a drink and you might ways that person the nicest person because you're not even accustomed to somebody being nice to you. So it takes a lot of mental strength to get out of a domestic relationship. And I think what we need, we need more centers that assist a transitioning person. Somebody that is thinking about it I want to leave, I want better for my children if I leave him or if I leave her. How are going to maintain them? How are going to feed them? I can't leave how I go leave them talking about I don't need that. I go take the legs because I need that.
[00:23:28] Speaker D: It sounds easy. It sounds easy every time we unfortunately read these incidents in like a newspaper the quickest thing people say is she should have left. But as Junior saying, easier said than.
[00:23:41] Speaker C: Done because it's not all the time.
[00:23:44] Speaker D: You have this partner, you're living in a house with a man, you're living in a house with a woman, you are two grown as children.
[00:23:52] Speaker A: It could be your house too.
[00:23:57] Speaker D: How do I leave and do I leave by your colleague, by yourself?
[00:24:01] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:24:02] Speaker A: And your family dies. All part of it. You got to take that. If they're coming from an old culture.
[00:24:09] Speaker D: You still go to work and he still know where working, she still know.
[00:24:12] Speaker C: Where exactly what I've seen worked. And this has maybe last maybe ten years, right? The police unit now has the gender based unit that have victim support and have organizations like Families in Action, Rape, Cris, et cetera. So they actually work together. They are safe houses in Trinidad, of course anonymous and so going to organizations like those will give you the kind of support so they would ask those questions well, are you working?
Should you go back home right now? Sometimes I've seen even the same evening of the report that they actually take the woman to save houses. So I'm not saying it's perfect, right? But at least I see now there are a lot more resources for women and not just a straight report. And they go through the whole biopsychosocial aspect of that woman's situation. Do you have children? How many children? Sometimes they won't pick up the children immediately, depending on what it is. So there are a lot more options.
[00:25:14] Speaker A: Now, again, it's not perfect, but at what stage, though?
At what stage is it considered domestic violence for either party? For the male or the female or the female, if it's female and female, male and male, right.
[00:25:27] Speaker D: So you remember I asked you a question, if you would report it. I was in a situation where I was in a relationship with a beautiful young lady.
There's years, obviously it's not my current part.
And she showed smaller than me, but she grew up in a situation where she saw domestic abuse being the order of the day. Now, both parties fighting, that's what she knew. Grew up in a situation of no calm, no peace, and she petite thing behind me, petite lash, doing all kind of different things. But I never saw myself or believed I was a victim. I still don't believe I'm a victim. And so I felt I would have been a victim if I were to go to a police station and say, well, boy, this woman tripping off. Because the moment I raise my hand to Lash, the moment I raise my hand, because as I say, I am bigger than the person.
Smallly, smally and stuff like that. And that situation, that relationship was for a while. And as Janine was saying, sometimes your partners know, I remember we were in a house party sorry. And something had playoff in the house party and she pelted Lash upstairs. And my partners hearing the commotion, so they obviously know what is going on and they probably in their mind saying.
[00:26:58] Speaker A: Wherever, but it's okay.
[00:27:00] Speaker D: Yeah. And the thing is, honestly, it happened as I never felt as a victim. I still don't believe I'm a victim. But I had to come to the realization any moments where I say, well, we could cuss, but effort. Now at this point in time, you take what you need to take or whatever you need to do. But that's the end of the rope. And it took a while. I had to tell you it took a while because obviously, if you're together with somebody, I believe you wouldn't be with somebody if you don't love them.
[00:27:34] Speaker C: Okay, well, Joel, not to start a therapy session, right?
[00:27:38] Speaker A: Yeah, but you're going to anyway.
[00:27:41] Speaker C: Why Esteed? After she pelled the first few things, after she pelled the first few loss. Why estate?
[00:27:46] Speaker D: Because Janine was saying earlier that level of hope. You hope that this is just a one off thing. You hope that this person like, this is not what okay, so I'm not the biggest person, right? So when I grew up in school and stuff like that, I know to talk. So I know to words with intent to hurt. So I would say something to hurt, right? So I'm not a physical person. So I started wondering if did I say something?
Was it my fault that you're always looking at if you are the reason why this thing happened kind of thing.
[00:28:26] Speaker C: So that goes with Janine's point. Before.
[00:28:30] Speaker B: I'll stay like five months, janine.
[00:28:33] Speaker C: Was saying that we need to teach children in primary school self love. And if we again, it can't be perfect. I don't know. No perfect self love program, but teaching, giving them more awareness of self love. So when they reach that stage, the red flags would be immediate, immediate, immediate. So if one lash now, you could rationalize it and say maybe the person grew up in a certain way, but that doesn't mean you accepted it. And self love I could even for myself. I really learned self love maybe about seven, eight years ago really what that is.
And I've seen people accept things. I have accepted things that I really realized I do love myself. And it's only after sometimes even here, even here in other people's story, I realize, wait, now I was taking know and where it is physical, emotional, et cetera, et cetera. And even sometimes, well, I dodge the things she felt. I dodge it. So it's not violence. But that's still not acceptable.
[00:29:31] Speaker A: So I realize that jeannie, I know you have to run in a bit. This is a conversation that is not a one stop shop, not a one size fits all. This is something that we'll certainly be speaking about on several different basis. Because as I mentioned to you, Joel, I would say there was a point that I was accused of it. And in retrospect and looking back at it, you kind of ask yourself, what did I do in terms of? Because the point I'm trying to make is, even though you can look and you can say, okay, all the physical things that you talk about wasn't there. The fact is, as a result immediacy of losing people that you love, no one asked the question, hey, was this person in a state of?
Is there other reasons why I lived with these people? Did I see any signs? Was there anything at all? But the moment it is said accusation, and everyone at that point sort of locks you off and you become, like I said, painted as an abuser.
And these things, and I can tell you, it's a very painful place to be, especially when you know that's not you.
And in the cases, do you now open up and sort of expose the truth? Or do you just. Move on and learn from it and do things like we're doing now and having conversations and reaching out to other people who may be going through certain things. But again, as I said, there's so many things that we want to speak about with regards to the topic. But while we have Janine here for just a bit, I just wanted to bring up in a Woman's Worth, one of the things that was brought up with regards to domestic violence. We talk about triggers and a woman dresses a certain way and, you know, that's always a topic.
They go out on a date, they go home, they consent.
The act takes place while the act is taking place with two consenting adults. The woman says, stop.
The fellow continues.
[00:31:40] Speaker B: Why didn't he stop?
[00:31:43] Speaker A: This is what we had to discuss. You in the heat of the moment, at the start of it.
What is the difference between a minute and continuing on in the height of the moment? And the fellow is then charged with either abuse or no rape.
[00:31:59] Speaker B: But boo boo. He was told to stop. Something could be hurting, something could I be pulling? She could have catch cramp, but she asked Stop. He's map for two minutes. And if you can hear that, I don't know. I mean, English real easy to communicate. Stop. I think stop. Everybody understands stop, right?
[00:32:18] Speaker C: I think for the most part, when.
[00:32:19] Speaker A: You say no is no. But I'm talking about those scenarios where the fella is now charged.
Well, you could go and report a.
[00:32:29] Speaker B: Situation right now where friends lymen next morning, friend, rape friend. What? Crazy, right? Anyway, that's the situation now. But in our country, they changed their.
[00:32:48] Speaker A: Mind in terms of or they just rape actually took place because there's a difference. Well, women know.
[00:32:54] Speaker B: We don't know. This is where I'm getting to. So when police get involved, police in our country are like, well, rape is the hardest thing to prove in our country because it's between, as you said, two adults. One person could easily say, but she wanted it, and the other person could say, but everybody has something to say. So how do you prove this? Even fluids, even going to get a test done or whatever, just proves that it actually happened. It doesn't prove that her story or his story is true. But in your situation, when somebody does speak out and say, hey, stop, whether they change their mind last minute, they had a bad flashback, they had an experience, they were in pain, they catch a cramp. If they said to stop, I believe the right thing to do would be to stop, at least to figure out what's going on. Because, yes, anything other than that, yes, you have given consent to boogie woogie and have a dance. But if I tell him a heel looking like a going on break, I need to stop dance right now. And you continue dancing with money dance floor my heel break you'll be hurting me on the dance floor I might still be able to dance with channel brush up my foot so stop. No means no in our country. I do appreciate that the TTPs and the whole body, they have tweaked it a little bit. So we do have a sex offenders list in Trinidad and Tobago. I believe we have 16 or 17 people listed on the sex offenders list. I had an interview on Slam to find out more about it. Right. So in our country, for you to be on the list, you have to be arrested, be convicted, serve the time and then when you are now released back into society, that's when you are included on the said list.
[00:34:45] Speaker D: Not just a charge.
[00:34:47] Speaker B: Not a charge. No, you actually have to have to save your time. Yeah, you have to save your time. And now when you're back out and released into society, now you are part of this list. Yeah, because I thought, well, we have offenders. What if you live in down the road? No, you have to serve the time and go through the whole thing. So I do commend CTPs and you mentioned something earlier that ringed on my mind, family Planning Association of Trinidad, they offer free counseling. Yay. They offer free counseling to anybody that might be going through something. It doesn't matter. And if you feel like, well it's Trinidad, I don't trust them. Honey. I'm part of FBA and I've been part of FBA for a very long time and my counselor not even from here. Right, so the counselors are not most of the time they're not even from Trinidad and know my counselor's from Jamaica. So I think give it a try, give it a shot and have the conversations.
[00:35:42] Speaker A: So Janine, this is a shorter one than normal, but no, we appreciate you taking the time and not just taking the time but to sit down on the table on a predominantly male talk show where it's sort of geared to talk to our males and invoke other thoughts and opinions and presence yourself and talk about it. I commend you, hats off. And to give your opinion, of course, is well taken. So what I would ask is just in our close as we speak, we're going to continue talking about this topic. Blaze is going to join us once again. We have Niall and Ken Simmons as well and a couple other people that would continue to join in these conversations as we hope to reach men and to know, regardless of what the excuses, backgrounds, et cetera are, we all agree we want it to stop. That's the bottom line. It must stop. Whether we could say they're triggers, who fault it is, it needs to stop. That's what we can agree on. What's your takeaway from today?
[00:36:45] Speaker B: I think aside from it needing to stop, we need to show our children a better example if we want to have a better future.
Don't think it's okay. Don't think that they don't know. Don't think that they're not wool enough to observe. They are listening. They are aware.
I think if it is you just had a child and you're in a bad relationship and you're seeing again toxic, don't stay for the child. Don't do yourself that. Don't do the child that I am a victim. I am someone. Yeah. My parents, they stay together because of me. I appreciate it.
I do.
No worries because they weren't the happiest. So don't sacrifice your happiness and your joy for the child. Try and find the joy and in yourself so you could give your child that joy and that love and yeah, parents, really. And fathers, oh, fathers, we need you so much.
And ladies, ease upon the child father. He might have an ex woman, a small thing or you could do at this point. But your child needs a father. And do not be selfish and do not keep your children from their fathers. It is very important, especially little girls. You might think it's just the boys need their dads alone, but little girls need their fathers just as important. And fathers, treat your children right. Men out there, carry your daughters out. Show your daughters how you want a man to treat her.
Same thing fellas. Teach you fellas how to be men and how to care for a woman, how to care for monthlies come. This how he does do it as a man. This is how he does operate when the monthly is here because these are things we're going to have to function with from now know, the end of time. So I'm always like, this might be a toxic relationship with Trinidad and Tobago and me, but I'm always hopeful. I'm always hopeful that we are going to get there. One know, there are young people and young women and young men listening and hopefully it falls in somebody's garden and they get up and they act. Hopefully this is the 7th time that he or she leaves and this would be the last time that they have to go through that. Family members that are going through the situation where he has left or she has left four times already, it's okay because the journey now starts. You know what I mean? After they've left. You have a lot of healing to do, so be there for somebody. You don't know what people going through. Yeah.
[00:39:26] Speaker D: Jordan well, when we had the first conversation about the Manhood podcast, the conversation was I believe that every conversation, if you can at least touch one person and help them be able to navigate through this will. So I'm hoping in this episode because I believe this topic is a serious.
[00:39:49] Speaker A: Topic, one that we have to scratch the surface.
[00:39:53] Speaker D: But my hope is that somebody who is possibly in a relationship that may not be the best relationship for them will take this opportunity to look at the relationship and make a decision that will benefit them in the future.
Whether it be a man, a woman, if you are the person who is the aggressor or the person who is making the relationship toxic, look within yourself too now, because as Boudjanine and Joancy would have said, that's self love, looking at yourself and deciding you want better for yourself, for the future. And that the good thing about my situation that I would have spoken about is that we never had a tie. As in, there was nothing holding us together. So when I was able to walk away from that relationship, I was able to close the door and I was done. There are people who may be in relationships that may not have such a clean cut.
My advice is to seek advice.
Joancy would have angelina would have both mentioned there are avenues for prisoners to be able to get out of toxic or relationships that are violent. Seek the best option. Reach out to persons who can help. And that is my hope. My hope is that anyone that is in a situation that may not be the right place for them, find the best way out.
As Janine said, we live in hope. I am a man believe in hope, which is probably what would have kept me there longer than I needed to be. Because I believe in second chances. And that we sometimes even need to give ourselves a second chance.
My wife always says it that there are no bad people, but sometimes good people do bad things. I honestly don't believe there are bad people in this world. I believe that sometimes you do shitty things and you always once there's life, once you see a new day, there's opportunity for you to be better.
[00:41:52] Speaker C: My takeaway is one I am grateful for even this right first manhood, because is a place for mature men having mature conversations. We're not fighting, we're not backing out, we're not cursing anything. And then to have the balance today with Janine in terms of hearing the female's perspective and it's not the battle of the sexes, it is the collaboration, the mature conversations between. And I think this is a real hopeful thing that should continue and we shouldn't hope it continue. We should make efforts.
And Robert, I'm glad that you made the initiative also to make something like this happen. And Gina, I know your time is limited, but thank you for coming and for anyone watching, seek any help. We mentioned family planning, families in action, gender based unit in the police victim support rape crisis. Actually, just call somebody, right? Call some organization. And even if they may not be the people to handle it, they could put you on tape. And thank you, everyone, for the opportunity for us all being here.
[00:42:59] Speaker A: And one of the things I wanted to touch on just in closing is the fact that historically, people would say, you go to a police station, you go to different areas, and you can't report it. Or in certain cases, the officers at that point, they take a stance, and you're dismissed, right? Speaking to Superintendent Allen, and again, listening to this show, The Woman's Worth, they now have an online process, so you no longer need to go to a police station. You can actually go online and put that case there. So you don't have to reach number seven. You can start the process. So there is awareness, there is that guidance. So you're not waiting to say, okay, well, I'm making the report, so I'm there. That should something worse happen, because you can have a double homicide or a suicide, the person I'm killing themselves afterwards, and you're still a victim to that, so the police might get a chance to intervene. So what they do is in that report, the report is then made, but then you have the advice all along to say, hey, look for these signs. Look for these red flags.
One of my takeaways is that excerpt that you read from the book. Simply to say doing that is not being a man. We're here to say that that's not what a man is. That might be what you've learned by upbringing. That might be what your peers have taught you, that might be more movies have taught you, or triggers. We blame triggers. We blame a lot of things, and it's just that it's a blame. It's just not right. It just needs to be stopped. For males, for females, as I read from the start, domestic violence is, as you put it, domestic abuse or violence in a home or violence in a dwelling. It's just wrong.
There's no excuse around it, whatever it is. There may be a piece. There may be instances, as you said, where good men or good women act out. But the fact is, the underlying reason needs to be addressed. And it's not a case of it happened and it's a one stop shop and it can't be reversed because there are situations. Something happens and you go for counseling, you have a conversation, you realize, this is leading me to do this, and it stops. I don't think it's a case where the first time something happens, that's it. And it's a red flag, as some people may use the term. But with all that being said, it's a conversation we've just scratchy surface, as Joel mentioned. It's something that we'll be talking about over and over and over. But the message to leave you with today is, male or female, it needs to stop.
