Fatherhood

[00:00:05] Speaker A: Manhood. Another big one. Well, it's always a big one because of the message that we send, what we attempt to send. And I always want to start off reminding our listeners, the viewers, and we're really grateful and thankful that you take the time to be part of this show and what we're trying to do, and for you to remember that we are not speaking on behalf of all men. We are a few men talking to all men. The topics are always apt, very important, not just to our lives, to your lives, whether you know it or not. And today's topic is no different. Today we are talking about fatherhood. We all have fathers or had fathers, and I'm always delighted to have, to my right, Johansey Iodk, behavior change consultant, a good friend, Wyatt gallery, life coach, artist, photographer. You name it, he's done it. And another good friend, Jason Williams, affectionately known as JW, media personality and unfortunately, an arsenal supporter. But I wouldn't hold that against him. Started from the top? Started from the top. [00:01:20] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:01:21] Speaker A: So, guys, I always like to start off with a definition. It's not always the definition by the end of the show, but it's a definition to get us started. So if you'd allow me just to bring up. Got to get the glasses here. Fatherhood is a state or experience of being a father. It refers to the role and responsibilities of a man in relation to his children, typically as a parent who contributes to their physical, emotional, and social well being. Fatherhood involves providing love, support, guidance, and protection to one's children, as well as being actively involved in their upbringing and development. And of course, it goes on to a lot more char GPT. You just put it in there and it just comes up with all sorts of good information. Makes you sound really knowledgeable and skilled in this thing. [00:02:15] Speaker C: So that's the AI definition. [00:02:16] Speaker A: That's the AI definition. So again, it's a definition for us to start off, start that dialogue. One of the things I always grew up hearing was, anyone can be a father, but it takes a lot to be a dad. It's common knowledge. I lost my dad recently, and a lot came about as a result of that. A lot of. A lot of revelations, things that I'd taken for granted all along. And that now that I look at it, my purpose almost has changed in somewhat. Not just to my son and what I want to be for him, but also what I try to now encourage or show to friends, our listeners, to other people as to why they should do certain things with their dad. Regardless of where you're at with regards to that relationship. So today's topic was supposed to be almost a change or a part two to what we were speaking about with regards to relationships and whether men should have girlfriends, female friends, and whether females could have guy friends. And we had a really energetic and powerful discussion on that. But I thought it was really apt to bring this one to the name of the show is manhood. But what about fatherhood? And it was something that I felt. We have a responsibility to the next generation. To this generation, but also to the next generation. Meaning our fathers, persons older than us, persons our age, persons younger than us. But really and truly what we can control is, to a certain extent, is our influence on the next generation. So, gents, I've been kind of the usual. The usual? The usual. So what's your take on fatherhood? [00:04:11] Speaker D: Firstly, I would say I'm happy that you decided to do this, seeing that this month is father's day also. And I learned recently that this month is actually world male health month. And that's important because I didn't even know that, right? And usually we hear all the other things, right? And I, as a man, don't even know when I am being celebrated or when certain things are being. Certain awarenesses are being brought up. So I am also going to take an active now actually putting these things down. So even if I don't celebrate it in its fullness, at least I could bring awareness to that. So I thanking you for that. And that's one and then two. [00:04:53] Speaker A: Not to mention you also dated the program, so now they know exactly when this was filmed. But that's okay. [00:04:59] Speaker D: Cut out part, right? When you're saying a father, I realized that in my even thinking about what a father is, what came to me immediately was what I missed from my father. So at least in my experience, I didn't think about all the things that I got versus the things I didn't get and thinking about. When I ask others, many of them, I say more than 50%. Their answer also was what they didn't get versus what they had. [00:05:27] Speaker C: Right. [00:05:28] Speaker D: So I would say for now, my definition of a father is somebody who is simply there consistently a male figure in my life or in someone's life that is there consistently. I'll start with that. [00:05:44] Speaker A: Wyatt, anybody? Jump in. [00:05:46] Speaker C: Yeah, I thought that definition was really good, actually. And the first word that comes to mind for me is a guide. And to guide in different ways could be spiritual, it could be right and wrong. And honestly, I'm really curious what you just got from your dad passing away. Like what? The change in purpose and the revelations. Because that's something I think about a lot with my dad being in his eighty s. [00:06:23] Speaker A: I want to hear from Jay, but, Jay, if you'd permit me, just as he asked, of course. Go right down. What was really profound for me was that over my dad's illness, I mean, my dad was always a very powerful figure for me. And hearing a lot of things. After his death, I went through two emotions. One of pride and one of being pissed off because, one, I was pissed off that he never shared that with me because he was a man, very humble person in terms of who never was a boastful person. And I was also pissed off at people who were telling me. I was like, well, one, where were you all this time? And two, why am I now finding this information out? Like, I found out, for example, Prince Charles, now King Charles, when he went to the Royal Air Force, my dad was his personal parachute instructor. Wow, that's powerful. I'm like, oh, you never shared that with me. And although he shared a lot of stuff. [00:07:23] Speaker C: Find dads can be so humble like that. What's that about? Is that like a taught thing of manhood? [00:07:31] Speaker D: Is that really humility? Because, as he said, I'm thinking about things. I even recently found out about my father, and I was like, why didn't you say something? You don't have to go around saying that. He said, hey, you know, well, I did. Xyz. [00:07:44] Speaker C: Yeah, exactly. We should be able to share without it being boasting. [00:07:49] Speaker A: I don't know. As we go along on this particular episode or this conversation, as I like to say, there are a lot of revelations, not just with my dad, but in terms of what the perception of a man like, I would listen to things about, as we can talk later on, about men and crying or men and children, how children fear their fathers. There were two sides that I found really profound for me. But just to say that the biggest revelation for me with dad was when he first was diagnosed about eight or nine years ago, that pushed me to do things like a marathon to raise money for him or join the Trinidad Tobago Cancer society. He didn't reveal that he was sick. He didn't want anyone to know. But once he started to experience all the procedures, it became to the point that he now became very dependent on me or the family. I became immediately almost the patriarch, but without knowing it, you would just go on every day just doing what it took. They say what you focus on is what you see. And what I did is I focused on making sure he survived, but in making sure he survived, I lost sight that that's my dad. It just became a mission. [00:09:06] Speaker D: Okay. [00:09:06] Speaker A: And so when he went to hospital this time around, I thought it was just somebody else to call, somebody in the ministry, somebody somewhere else to assist in his progression. And when I got the call to head up to the hospital, I was like, what's going on here? And it was in the final ten minutes. I went from always being that resolute person that would. To protect him or help him survive, to immediately feeling like a child being abandoned. And that was so profound for me. Like, wait, dad. [00:09:46] Speaker B: Even as a big man, if I. [00:09:47] Speaker A: Even was a big man and the person that was looking after him, I felt that, hey, wait, you're leaving me here? Was that one, that type of thing, while saying the words, it's okay, you can go, that type of thing. And the responsibility at that point of realizing that, even though I wasn't aware of it at the time, I was always trying to make him proud. It would always be something that I'd call him for, but not recognizing those things. So in realizing now that, hey, wait, now I know how to do things. My son is probably going to do the same for me, and I have to do things for my child. The takeaway, as you asked, Wyatt, was simply that you always think you have the time more than anything else. Even the amount of people that showed up at the funeral, you're like, why aren't we there for the living? Why do we show? I had family flying in from all over the world, and I'm like, well, you haven't been to Trinidad in 2030 years, but the man has now passed, and we all showing up, and we come by iron and all the rest of it, but why aren't we there for the living? And so I'd said to myself that on that weekend, I was going to go up and ask him, do you have anything that you want to share with me? Like get off your chest type thing? And I wanted to tell him, as much as I'd shown up, how I felt. I showed up. I wanted to apologize and to say, you know what? I see you, dad. And that day never came. So I tried to show and try to speak to all young men, women. Regardless of what your relationship is with your father, you don't want to live with that guilt. You want to be able to tell them, give them that opportunity, because when they're dead, they're dead. You still live in, and you now have to be the one that is now saying, well, I wish I told him something. [00:11:39] Speaker B: Well, the interesting thing is that's something nobody really gave me a template to a guideline, but it's something I would have done with my dad, who also passed on. He passed on in 2021. And when he passed on, I felt, of course, getting that news was a phone call. So for about 5 seconds I felt moment of sadness. And after that I was very calm. My dad was absent in my life. However, when I came of age, in my twenty s, started to work in media. As a matter of fact, I took a loan. I remember I didn't even save up. I just got a vaps a day and I took a loan and I went up to New York to see him. I would have seen him a couple of times growing up too, but I could probably count on one hand. And I went up and I made peace. And I've made numerous trips to the US. And every single time, it was always an olive branch of forgiveness. I actually see those words, the time done pass. This is now. Let's get to know each other. I want to get to know you. I hear so much great things about you. Because the funny thing is, my personality and my spirit is more or less the exact same thing. Even though I spent no time with the man, I've just been able to turn it into a career. But he was life for the party, a lyricist, a man full of talks, chat, love, sports. Every single thing that I have an interest in. Football. He loved football. Track and field. He loved track and field. Dr. Steamfish. I would ask him certain questions. I like steamfish. My father's a steamfish man. He bears. He's a bears man. [00:13:09] Speaker A: So I say. [00:13:10] Speaker B: But I'm a real, literally, what do they say? [00:13:15] Speaker A: Carbon copy. [00:13:16] Speaker B: Even though he didn't play a role. But I get to realize now, as I got older, that probably he not being there was also probably by design, by the creator, a saving grace. Because he was also, as much as the personality and the Persona was a big one, he was also probably a hard man too, I get to realize, and probably me not being around and seeing and experiencing that hardness is what kind of shape into I am. So I think fatherhood for me is two things. It's a template, it's understanding a history. And I was able to get that through my interaction with him. And it was always cordiala. I mean, I used to really just wish he would express himself a little bit more. But I knew I was at peace. I was at total peace, because I know I would have tried multiple times over. And I think fatherhood for me is, at this point in time, as a father, redemption, because ultimately, my son, I treat with him the way I wish my father would have treated with me. So in a way, I am fathering my son and also myself. I literally am a father. It's like I assumed the role of what I thought my dad should have been, and I literally just what you needed. So it's a healing. And I think it came full circle when I took my son to see him in 2018. So I always make a joke with my son, and I see him meet your grandfather twice. It was the first and last because that was literally the only time my son would have met my father. And I thought to me, when all of us were together and we took that picture on the balcony in Florida, when I left the was on Monday, I knew that was the full circle. I knew that was it. I knew that was. And it literally was it. [00:15:04] Speaker A: And one of the things that you said there, jay, we speak about tough love. One of the things that even as a dad myself, and maybe you experienced it where you do try to make up or you do try to father your children, how maybe some of the things that you felt that you were missing. But again, I come back to that term, what you focus on is what you see. And like we are now, we're doing the best we can. [00:15:36] Speaker C: I am always know that about your parents. That's why you don't have the resentment and need to let go and have the peace that you're talking about, because you never think, you always expect so much. Why didn't they do this? Why didn't they do that? How come he wasn't there? And you don't know what your parents are going through outside of them trying to be there for you. And I think it's huge. Like, you have to let it go. You have to forgive. And what I'm hearing from you guys, too, is that you're being conscious about how you're showing up as a father. You're choosing what type of father you want to be. And I think that's really important to be a conscious parent versus just going on an autopilot. And I'd love to hear what you have to say about how the brain works and everything our behaviors, but you could just autopilot because that's what you grew up with, right? Your reactions and how you react to what the kids are doing. [00:16:29] Speaker B: Because I've always heard there are fathers who are actually present but absent at the same time. They're physically there, totally, but they're just. [00:16:35] Speaker A: Emotionally and again, up and might be doing the best work. [00:16:39] Speaker C: Whatever. [00:16:39] Speaker A: But we will hear from you, auntie. I think we all want to hear about the science of that and how the brain works, but we have to take that pause. Yeah, again, guys, I wish you could hear somebody behind the scenes. Really important discussion. We talk about fatherhood on manhood. So thanks for staying with us, having really, really some really good dialogue here. Johansei WYatt JW, before we went to the break, we spoke, this is now fatherhood on manhood, and we were speaking about being a conscious dad. Some dads are there. You're there, but you're not there. And why aren't you also asking about the science behind that being a present dad and the tone of that? Johansey, do your thing. [00:17:39] Speaker D: All right. So, men first, I want to say that manhood in itself is a powerful thing when men sit down and we gather and we speak in positive things. But for me today, I think this is one of the most powerful conversations we've had, because all of us have dads, whether they cease or not. But we had fathers, and they had serious impacts on us, whether or not they were present or not. I've heard a quote. Your dad as a man, as a male, your dad influences your life, whether he is there or not. And hearing this, and even for myself, rings true. We're talking about the science behind it, whether a father being present, can be present physically and not there emotionally. Because I have realized what makes our father, what makes a man have so many dynamics is there's no exact science behind it, because most times, what we end up doing is doing the thing that we missed most times and or doing the thing that the only thing that we saw and in this day and age, because there's so much information and whether sometimes we seek in it or not, we get the information, we now could start to troubleshoot on how to be a better father, or even is that working as a father, even if it's not you you're looking at? There's so much information on it. So I would say it's a plus. There's so much information now because now we could troubleshoot and kind of decide what we take and what we're not taking, et cetera. And then, of course, there's facilities like this, because I'm sure back in the day before this, men did sit and have conversations, but only a few would. [00:19:21] Speaker A: Be privy to it. [00:19:23] Speaker D: So now that we troubleshoot in right again, nobody know more than anybody. We pull in and we consolidate in what we know. Then more people are able to hear it. [00:19:33] Speaker B: So true, you said, because it goes back to again, my dad not being there, but yet still I'm so much like him. And I get to realize that through going out, meeting him, interacting and recognizing that way, boy, this is me. And I think there was a power to in him not being there. I think it actually made me man up pretty early. I went out, I was in a work scene from the tender age of the 14, wanting to help out at home. Thank goodness, too. I think what was my saving grace was a strong and very present mom and she still is very much present and a real motivating factor for me. So her, and of course, funny enough, her brothers, right? My uncles stepped up at uncles who stepped up. My father's friends would have stepped up to my godfather. Some of his personal friends were like, you know what, we have to kind of rally around this young man. So there were factors and had a community that helped me out. But ultimately, in terms of my dad, no regrets really. I looked at his particular example and I told myself, as I would have mentioned in the first segment, it's a chance for me now to kind of go at it at a different angle. So because I had no template, how I approach fatherhood with my son is more of a big brother, little Brother kind of role where I'm very open, very transparent, very authentic. That's huge. It is adus profanities, though. We get to that point yet. He's going to be 17 in a couple of days. But we speak sometimes the conversations he has a bit risky. And especially when he's coming into his teens, he will bring certain questions to me, it was like, wait, make me cringe a little bit. But I was real or without going too real just yet. But we could sit down and we could rap and we actually operate like brothers. That's literally how we operate. It's not father and son is more, but I think that brother, little brother. [00:21:27] Speaker C: That vulnerability is so powerful. I think a lot of men, especially our father's generations, probably were taught that they need to be closed down, closed off, right. I'm controlling what I show you to have that full transparency. I think that is what is a man. [00:21:49] Speaker B: So I'll give you a hack, right? Real quick hack. What I do, I don't go through his phone. It's not like I will pick up his phone since he's small, as funny enough as give him that respect. And that privacy. I'll knock his door, he'll knock my door to come in. So what we do, we have the same id. We share the same id. So in essence, his pictures, my pictures, we both get access to it. And so far, nothing cringey, nothing really shocking. And then I don't have anything that all the time on my phone. [00:22:17] Speaker A: So that is like. [00:22:21] Speaker B: Okay, it's like a real open door kind of policy. Like literally full transparency, my passcodes from credit cards, bank card, everything. [00:22:33] Speaker C: I think about this all the time with my son, both my kids, that one of the things I want most as they get older is that they would feel comfortable coming to me with anything to talk about, anything, to be fully open, whether they're scared to tell me, whether it's something bad, something they regret, whatever it is. I feel like that is a huge sign of success as a parent, as a father. And I don't know exactly how to get there, but I know that that's like, one of the things I want the most. I saw this study the other day where it said, in actuality, your parents are not the main force behind how you end up as a child. It's your closest community. [00:23:19] Speaker A: The societal influence. [00:23:20] Speaker C: Yes. Or the uncles, the teachers. Right. That first ring around and around the child. So it's not all on you. It's not all on me, which I think is great to think about. Right. But we can design our community, our village, so that he's getting an input from you. He's getting input from the kung fu teacher. And I know for me personally, I got a lot from my dad, but I also got a lot from my first boss when I was doing roofing at age 16. Like, this dude was so philosophical. And I can remember all these one liners he told me to this day that still I still use as my life tools. So I think it's important to have, first of all, take the pressure off of ourselves that it's all on us to be the perfect fathers. Right. And then also, though, to allow the uncles, allow the teachers, allow the sports coaches to be there in that way, too. They're not crossing a line by disciplining, by speaking in a certain way. They're all guides. [00:24:30] Speaker A: You guys touched on a couple of things there that I just want to bring into context. One of the things would be, we spoke about tough love initially, but again, I mentioned it for the third time. What you focus on is what you see. And is it that terrible at tough love? I know I try, man. But again, like, you said, we're doing our best. And in part of doing our best, there's a couple of things I want to address. First off, you always hear this saying, it takes a village to raise a child and we can't have an influence. First off, our decision must be to be present. That's the one thing you might be able to do your best. You might know, have all the answers, but you can decide to be present. But if your dad isn't present, one of the things that we always hear is that a mother can never replace a father and a father can never replace a mother. There's just different aspects of it. [00:25:34] Speaker D: Because I have a few points. [00:25:35] Speaker A: That's all right. I want to hit these points here. Right. So the other aspect to that would be whether you're present or not, like you said, you have an influence. And we speak about in being part of that circle, and we do the best that we can do. And we don't know what our parents go through when we are now parents ourselves. We are now dads ourselves. And we can reflect and say, like I look back and say, now I could see what my mother had to go through, or now I can see what my dad may have endured. Do we now look at maybe some of our children, our citizens in society, who had to grow up without dads and who had to join a pack, who had to join a gang? And I'm not talking about gang, just in a violent sense. I'm talking about they owe me. They be basketball, football, or literally a gang without fathers that in their cases, now that they look back, we judged that particular situation that they did the best they could. So in the sense that that father know that they may be fathers themselves might look back now, and that same aggression or resentment that they feel to their dad, they now understand. Okay, well, now I understand why he's not around because I'm doing the best I can. And that mightn't be being able to take care of children because you did the act. Again, we come back to that whole thing about the difference between being a father and a dad. Anybody can father a child, but I wanted to go on with another point, but I want to hear yours. [00:27:09] Speaker D: All right, so let me summarize quickly what you are saying about your relationship with your son. You all are like brothers. And then, Wyatt, what you said about sometimes fathers take on the role, I would say, let's call it a little too seriously. What I realize is when we have certain terms and we've been father, now we think about it in a superhuman manner. Right? So because I have this title, I'm now above human. And so when we look at it, we don't expect human things. But I'm saying, no, let's bring it back to the level we are all humans interacting with each other. Humans of different ages, right? So if we look at ourselves as human and we look at our children as human, then the interaction change, then the point behind the interaction change. And because we are human, that means we're not perfect. And our children would. [00:27:58] Speaker C: We're perfect in our imperfection. [00:28:00] Speaker D: Perfect imperfection, exactly. Going deep and understanding that we are able to expose our flaws to our children. So you could see Daddy make a mistake or for them to see I lose my composure in this moment. Or you know what? It's hard for me to do tough love, but I could do other things. And then I will add what you're speaking about. The uncle influences and the other male, I think, innately. And this was some research I was doing recently in Italy, that all of us strive and crave the tribe, right? All of us inside the village, right? Whether it is the village of the mixed male and female or the village of men. So even now, the research has shown that the nuclear family is actually unhealthy. It's an unhealthy combination because that's mother, father, child. That's unhealthy because each person need that interaction from outside, right? So then, now that's why with our boys, with our sons, especially being ourselves, important, right? I think I covered most of the points we spoke about the voice, why a male voice is important. Because I did this research, actually, in Malefin couples relationships, why sometimes women are able to manipulate men. But that's the start of it. But I'll tell you, we males, we are programmed to respond different ways to different tones. So when we hear somebody in distress. So let's say a child's voice, because a child's voice naturally is a higher tone, kind of in distress, we would react a certain way. So that's why sometimes when women wanted to get to do something, they'll say, well, give me this. [00:29:41] Speaker A: No. [00:29:41] Speaker D: And they kind of raise the voice, right? But when you hear the deep tone, you react differently. It revokes. It's like the bass in a drum. The bass in a drum gets you a different kind of reaction. So when that father says something. Now, even though the father's voice may not be the deepest, the seriousness of the tone is what reverberates in that child's mind, and they react differently to it. [00:30:05] Speaker A: Are you responding to what I was talking about with regards to the tough love aspect of it, where they say children sometimes react to their dad out of fear. And I was rebutting that to say that it's not fear, it's fear of their bad choice so that a son loves. Like, for example, my son, we get on like a house on fire. There's a lot of affection there. The only thing is, when he makes a bad choice and his mother tells him to do something, and I come in and say it, it's not just because of the baritone. It's also the fact that he knows he's doing wrong. He's aware of that, and that choice is what he's in fear of, not in fear of the person. And we were discussing that, and you guys had some. [00:30:49] Speaker B: I get to realize, especially with my son. And I think it's something I learned also through how my mom would have set a high standard. As big as I am, big, hard back man, sitting down here with all your fellows, I don't want to bring no kind of embarrassment to my mother. I tell no mama's boy thing. It's just a scenario where it would break my heart. I'll probably break. I can't say probably. It would break my heart to see my mother in a courthouse or Aventa. I do some piece of nonsense now. So I realize my discipline is disappointment anytime. I don't use the wood often. But if I was to use that wood wrong, my son, I'll mash him up. If I was to say, bro, I disappointment boy. Where's that boy? Right full up more than I, and I never hit him. I not into beaten Sharon. [00:31:32] Speaker A: Yeah, agreed. [00:31:32] Speaker B: I not into that. I not hitting boy child guilt. Nobody. I'm not into burning nobody's skin. But I think that would use at the right time. If you watch a child and say, listen, yeah, wired by son, it's like. [00:31:45] Speaker C: An arrow to the heart disappointment. [00:31:47] Speaker B: And you walk off child mash up. Because it's like, disappoint daddy and my son. Honestly, I realized he's a man who disappoint me at all. Hence, I watch how we kind of conducted himself, and he move in real measured now. And I hope he just stay like that. That was just great for that. To me, my greatest success will. Me being successful, me bringing up Jalen to be functional and to be asset to the community, that's a greater success. [00:32:15] Speaker A: I want to hear your point, but we need to take a break. And when we come back, of course, we want to really wrap things up and present a real definition. We start off with one, we want to really come to what maybe our understanding is of fatherhood and to go into the other types of fathers that we see, even the non biological ones. So you have child father, you have sugar daddy, you have what a baby daddy is. And all of those have an influence on the next generation for the negative or the positive. So where you have your legacy, that's going to be your greatest achievement and how your son would react to that. Others may not react to that because they simply don't have their father around. Hence your child father and all the other child father. The other terms that we hear. So we're taking a quick break, some quick convo, and then we'll rejoin. So again, I think we really have to start recording some of these behind the scenes conversations. We're going to try and have that bring it to the fore. Now we're here talking on manhood, about fatherhood. Very, very important. And the fact is that the episode or this particular conversation today, the timing will run out and it will end. But the conversation and the realization and the subject matter never ends. So we hope to continue having these conversations like this on manhood. Before we went to the break, we were speaking about, of course, fatherhood. And I said that we were going to come back to speak about the various types. Child father, baby daddy, sugar daddy. And I know we had some raised eyebrows as to how sugar daddy really fits into this, but it comes down to the absence, the possible absence of a father figure in a young girl's life. Then have her look now to. We're not talking before. Everybody calm down. We're not talking about equality and all these other things. Again, we're talking simply about women who look to be taken care of and whether affectionate or negative term is used over sugar daddy. Right. It still comes under to that term. There's a reason behind it which you could go on with regards to the science. Child father, I guess. [00:34:46] Speaker B: Yeah, that's me. Because I'm not married to my son's mom. But you know what? We cool. We welcome co parent cordial relationship. We would have had little twists and turns in between, but she never deny my son. And I guess officially, I mean, I don't like the word. [00:35:04] Speaker D: So then maybe it's not child father. We call a child father versus in connotation. [00:35:09] Speaker A: Correct. [00:35:09] Speaker D: Because if you all co parenting, then. [00:35:12] Speaker B: It'S not child father. Why is that? [00:35:14] Speaker D: Because what is I'm saying as a father? [00:35:17] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:35:20] Speaker B: I told a child father. [00:35:25] Speaker D: Because child father is a local slang. [00:35:28] Speaker A: Right. [00:35:28] Speaker D: Or baby daddy. Right. That's a slang in itself, correct? Yes. So that's kind of a term where the person kind of off to the side. [00:35:37] Speaker B: Oh, no. Right. [00:35:38] Speaker D: So is that child father. If both of you all are healthy parents co parenting, then. [00:35:44] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:35:44] Speaker C: I think coparenting is a much bigger thing now, or at least more. It's more of the norm. A norm. Right. In the past. And I think we're in a stage now where you don't have to just be married to have a good relationship and to create a good upbringing for your child. I think that you can do that in many different ways. So I think being a father, being present, that doesn't mean you have to be there every day. That doesn't mean you're in the same house, but it does mean that you're consciously showing up for that child. You're bringing love, you're bringing guidance, you're being a responsible person. [00:36:28] Speaker B: And I also feel that women who deny men access to their children, I mean, that's a whole different conversation. And that's a real unfortunate decision some women make. And I have to say that was not my experience. That was not my reality. I was at full access. [00:36:45] Speaker C: And it only hurts a child. [00:36:46] Speaker B: Yeah. And especially a boy child, too. And I think that women need to really recalibrate, regardless of what you and a man went through, regardless of what issues, that is something that must be in the realm of history. [00:37:01] Speaker A: I agree. [00:37:01] Speaker D: What you're saying. What is wired. So even if the presence is important, because even if the child's mother does whatever, we can't control her behavior. I don't know if I mentioned it before, but there's a case when I was working in a separation case, and the child mother was actually doing that, keeping the boy away from the father. The court gave him visitation rights, et cetera. So it's on paper, but she was still keeping away. And he got one day a week, which was a Sunday, and he would go to where the child lives every Sunday and just stand up by the gate. Right. And the child would just look out the window. And he tried to come inside because people said that, but he didn't get to. But he did that every day. I think it was for five years. Every week. Sorry. For five years he just went there. Now, when I tell you, sometimes it's getting me emotional, because that's a man who, when I say pee and he used to come and cry, cry. Because every time it's not to say, you don't want to see. Son used to come to the gate seeing a Sunday. And when his son turned 18 and he had the opportunity and he said to go live with his father. What he said is that even though I didn't get to physically talk to you, somewhere in his mind he knew his father was there. Every week he say, you know what, Sunday I will get to see my father. And so as you say in presence, it may not be physically there. So even employing the fathers, even no matter however depression, the mother is right. And I'm not saying it's fair either. It's not fair. But that consistency, even if it's a message that child know. Sunday at 07:00 I gain a message from a father, right? So that even in find a way psychologically they know that their father there. [00:38:44] Speaker A: One of the things that as a dad I hear sometimes by friends of mine or refer to other friends and this term babysitting, how it's deemed when you're there and the wife decides to wife, girlfriend or co parenting decides to go out and do something or your babysitting boy. And I always take aback by that. I'm like, babysitting, it's my son and not babysitting. [00:39:17] Speaker B: That'S crazy. [00:39:18] Speaker A: But in doing that, when I have those moments where the whole day, or maybe a week or if she's traveling or whatever the case may be, I have to do everything. I have such an appreciation, not just for her, but for my own mother to say, wow, you raised four children. What it takes to be that mother, but also what it takes to be a dad. Because I mean, dads like you are, a lot of times I see you taking, you are very present for your kids. [00:39:48] Speaker C: Over the pandemic, I had to step in and become more full time dad, which was not my plan. And I never ever had any understanding how hard it is to be a parent, to be the main kind of caregiver for your children. And it made me, like you said, have so much more respect for moms who are usually the ones that have to put their career on hold and be home with the child more. And it's tough, man. You start questioning who am I? And it's exhausting. Not just physically, but emotionally, mentally. It is really challenging. And this is the hardest thing I've ever had to do in my life, actually. [00:40:32] Speaker A: And one of the other realizations in that is in my moments of doing that or in my moments of having to, because you're there and you feel this pressure to shape this human being or human beings. And there are many times I'm like, I haven't even figured it out myself. Oh, yeah. How am I shaping you? And I want to do the best job because I don't want, as you had mentioned about the uncles and that other ring, ultimately will shape that, that societal influence. There's still that pressure that the information I'm giving you, the advice I'm giving you what you're looking at, because it's not just what I'm seeing, it's what you're looking at. In my own actions, I feel like I'm always really conscious and that anxiety to ensure that, remember doing well, you're human. [00:41:21] Speaker D: So now that we understand that you're human, and even in that quest to find the writing, being honest, because let your son or your daughter see that. Daddy don't know everything, but daddy doing. Daddy making the effort. We spoke about a few times. [00:41:38] Speaker A: But do you recognize that, though, again, only when you are a certain age can you look back and recognize what they were trying to do. But at that point, my son is six, for example, now. And I say that to him, I said, I'm doing my best. He's not cognizant of that. To him, it's like, you can't buy me that motorbike. You can't take me to that pool. [00:41:57] Speaker D: That's fine. You may not even have to say motorbike. You may not even have to tell them. You may not have to actually tell them. You're doing your best to know. Just do your best, right? And they would realize that. Just like how I realize it later on. Most of us, we said, we realize it later on. You just do. You don't even have to try to convince your children of it. You just do as much as you could do. Because effort, a child will always feel your effort. You could be on the next side of the world. If you want your child to know something in that moment, you will do everything right. You could send a telegram, wherever, something will reach that child for that child to know. Daddy there with me. [00:42:35] Speaker C: And also, they're watching. Everything we do, they absorb. So I think they're learning from watching. It's like we are teaching by how we show up and our actions, not just by what we say to know that's important. [00:42:52] Speaker B: Because the reason I kind of went down that authentic and transparent road, I remember talking to great uncle. So that was my grandfather's brother passed away, Uncle Freddie. And Uncle Freddie said the reason he doesn't drink is because his father, when he was small, used to come home drunk every night. And he said he made up his mind very early that that wasn't his particular position in life. So I realized children have a way where they will watch us, and you might have a particular kink in the armor where they will either one take up the kink and run with it and probably go down that same road, or in most cases, make a decision and filter it out and say, you know what? I wouldn't really be like our dad. So I think the authenticity via our actions, or even if you talk certain things with your children and tell them straight up, listen, because I guess daddy is supposed to be the superhero. We're not supposed to have a Kinkaniyama. [00:43:45] Speaker A: And that's what I'm saying, jay, do I want for my child to look and say, hey, am I raising a good child based on the fact that he's looking at me and saying, I don't want to be like that? [00:43:55] Speaker D: That's fine, too. [00:43:57] Speaker A: I don't want that. [00:44:01] Speaker B: We're not perfect. [00:44:02] Speaker A: So at the end of the day. [00:44:02] Speaker B: I think the authenticity. You could be best daddy, Robbie Robert Wyatt. We could be the best dads. It will still have something where the child will decide. [00:44:15] Speaker C: I completely agree with you. I think we can never be the best dad. Yeah, there's always going to be something. [00:44:21] Speaker D: Be the best dad, but not the poof. [00:44:22] Speaker C: Who do you know in your life that doesn't have any trauma from growing up? You know what I mean? Like, everyone has their trauma. It's from your dad wasn't there. It's from my dad was there. You know what I mean? So I think every kid is going to have some stuff. Different degrees, obviously. And yes, we just have to keep doing our best and understand we are human. But I also love the idea of treating our children as humans. We're human to human. You know what I mean? It's not always we're above and they're below and they're learning from us. You know what I mean? I think this human to human type of exchange is great guidance. [00:44:58] Speaker A: So you mentioned something that the relationship you now have with your son, are we now saying. Because before we close, I want to address the sugar daddy, and I want to address sugar daddy because it's non biological, but it's still an element of the psychological nature of how we impact. And what I also want to ask us friends here, are we saying that we agree that we should be a friend to our child? Because there's always that argument that I'm not here to be a friend. I'm here to be a parent. And the two shouldn't mix. What are we saying? I want to bring it into. That's a good question. [00:45:39] Speaker B: I go back to just being a brother as opposed to a friend, literally, because I never had a brother. So it was a kind of two fold scenario where not having a template approaching this. How do I approach being a father to my son? You know what? [00:45:50] Speaker C: And how old were you when he was born? [00:45:52] Speaker B: I was 27. [00:45:54] Speaker C: So you're still relatively young. [00:45:56] Speaker B: Yeah. So he's going to be 17 just now. And it's like we would normal thing like what brothers would do, pillow fight, build lego, play, hide and seek, then eventually sort of come into his own sca, have different conversations. And I was always straight up and transparent with him. And I realized now it come to a place where we literally will be driving and just having a conversation like two that I could see as a lineman. I could see him right, won't be ashamed or be feeling how to take a line with daddy when he get older. He's not a big man. [00:46:26] Speaker C: He could be himself, and I want. [00:46:29] Speaker B: Him to be himself if he want to sit down and know it happened yet, as I say, no profanities in the conversation yet. And I think there's still a level of respect and I'm glad that there's still because there's that line that, you know, going on. I could turn into that daddy mode immediately when I raise my voice if. [00:46:46] Speaker C: I say, but I think that's important. [00:46:49] Speaker B: I think it's more like a brother. You got to kind of approach it from that kind of angle because no is that time information rubs and them kids best to come to you to get the real deal as opposed to. [00:46:58] Speaker A: Getting it from somebody else. [00:46:59] Speaker C: True. [00:47:00] Speaker B: Nobody will filter for them. [00:47:02] Speaker A: Has he ever questioned you about your choices with regards to not being. If he looks at other households with a married couple growing up like that, you're still there, which is important, which is a big thing. But has he had that combo? [00:47:16] Speaker B: Funny enough, he did not even have to question it. I explained to him from the time everything kind of things cannot fall. I can explain to him very young what the scenario was and what I did. I remember my exact words. I said, son, you'd rather mommy and daddy to be separate and happy or to be together and unhappy. You see, I like the first option, separate and happy. [00:47:39] Speaker D: And what you're saying, even Robert, what you're asking, right. I would say no to being friends because the definition of a friend, different to each person. [00:47:48] Speaker B: Right. [00:47:48] Speaker D: But we're going back to human to human, because I don't have to be somebody's friend to treat them like human. So you don't have to be your son's or your child's friend to treat them like a human. [00:47:59] Speaker A: So closing Jay, I'd like you to start just to touch on a bit of what you said. If you can give any kind of guidance to mothers, to aunts, to anyone who's out there listening, who may have grown up without a father, who doesn't know who their father is or who knows who their father is, but it's not present in their life to touch on a conversation that you may have had, likewise with your son, some nuggets to them. [00:48:28] Speaker B: It's about understanding your history. I think that's important. Going back, asking the od questions, trying to do your research, your personal family research, understanding where you came from, the family dynamic, and making a conscious decision when you now create your own family to go a different path. And if for any unfortunate reason things do work out, still keep a level of humanity, man, and keep some semblance of decency and love in the conversation, because I'm not about you anymore. Especially when a child involved, you have to consider the child, because when you wage the war, the collateral damage will always be the child, always be the child. So to the women out there, do deny the father's access. And I think a lot of women too, sometimes, unfortunately, because they know our dad really want to be like, they will stick it to him now, couldn't know that this man really want to be involved. And what about the men who do want no involvement? They don't even give that man sometimes that kind of pressure because he just do even business. So that's a whole different conversation for a different day. And I don't want people to get upset, but the reality is that I have a lot of men out here hurting, and they really want to be part of the child's life. And I think they should be given that option to come in and just let the child see for themselves where they come from and be person who played a part with them being here. So the child now can make a decision when they get older as to do I want to emulate or pull some of these things from daddy or I want to eradicate these behaviors? Because the child will ultimately do that. Each child will filter and do their own edit. And you know them kids are doing that. [00:50:05] Speaker A: Correct. [00:50:07] Speaker C: I would just add to that, though, because I grew up in a divorced family. And it really hurts the child when the parents are saying negative things about the other. You know what I'm saying? And sometimes my mom was more talkative. [00:50:21] Speaker A: Right. [00:50:21] Speaker C: So she would say more kind of like, little negative things here and there. So it wasn't that she was not letting me see my dad. I saw them a week and then a week, a week. But she would throw those little negative things out there more than he would. And that always left me just confused. And it didn't make me closer to her. It made me more distant from both of them because I was confused. So I think even. [00:50:45] Speaker A: Especially if you love your dad, especially if you're having a good time with him, it's like, why are you saying these things? [00:50:49] Speaker C: Exactly? Yeah. So I think we got to kind of keep that. Whether you're married or you're not or whatever, you got to keep your opinions to yourself when it comes to the child. [00:50:59] Speaker A: I just want to find out in your closing thoughts out of the discussion today, you were asking for some of the revelations that we may have had in our dad's passing. What may you be taking away from this to tell your dad or to let other people know? I mean, hearing some of our. [00:51:17] Speaker C: I've been thinking about that, actually, recently. I talked to my dad the other day, and I wanted to set up a weekly interview with him to get his stories, to get his experiences. And I don't know if you ever read or listened to the book, the last lecture. It's an amazing book. Might be a great time for you to listen to it. This is a professor who knew he was dying of terminal cancer, so he set up these recordings for his young child so the child would know him. And it was all of his lessons on ways of being as a human. I want to get that from my dad in a more deliberate way. And I try to drop those kind of one liners on my son here and there. Like, today we're going to school, and I try to compare the show he's was watching to how to be your best self and that being your spirit animal, whatever show it is is really about being your best self. And so I think those little one liners where you're not sitting down to be like, let me teach you something. But it's just an everyday and passing type of thing. I think those really mold someone and stick with them in a way that it's like being Yoda or something. [00:52:38] Speaker A: So, Johannes, I want one specific for you apart from your little nuggets that you always leave us with to really? Yes. I want the science behind the sugar daddy. So to have that understanding because you want that. [00:52:49] Speaker D: Okay. [00:52:50] Speaker A: All right. There is a negative impact and the reason why we laugh about it, but there's still a negative. So if you give me that as your closing thoughts. [00:52:56] Speaker D: All right, so I'll give you. Is a digression into that quick. [00:52:59] Speaker B: Right. [00:53:00] Speaker D: I did some research on why women. It started first in pornography, would say daddy right during the act. And then to see if women in real would do any same thing. And in the research, and I even spoke to some women, what they said is one when they were missing a father. So it's women with daddy issues mostly, right? With daddy issues. So they'd always look for a father outside of themselves. Even a sugar Daddy as a stranger. And they may be even sexual favors in the mix. They got some of the things that they were missing as a father where it is providing and protecting, sometimes even knowing that it have a guide here who want them, who want to be with them, who want to spend time older gentlemen. And in their minds, even though it may have been warped, right. It created that sense of having a father that they didn't have. So that's some of these science bent. I mean, it doesn't apply to everyone. And I said, I actually spoke to some woman and they were open and honest. And they said sometimes even after the transactions, they would feel a little empty because he's not really their father. But in the moment they had the fantasy of it. Or when they get deposited in the account, when Madari did this. [00:54:23] Speaker A: A literal deposit in an account, right? [00:54:26] Speaker D: Deposit, yes, a literal deposit. [00:54:28] Speaker A: We started off talking about porn. So I'm just trying, right? [00:54:33] Speaker D: And I using that because even with the porn aspect, if you're missing something, our expression of human behavior is always based on what's going on here, right? Human fear taught feeling, action. So if you're missing something, if you want something, it expresses itself somewhere else. So even understanding that could help us understand the importance of our father, the importance men, the importance of one you doing better in yourself as a man, whether father or not. And of course it translates into being a father, remembering that we're human, that we're not perfect and doing as much as we can. And Robert, as you said, and there's one thing I take and especially for my father to spend as much time with him as possible because he literally, I don't know what's going on happened tomorrow. Up to yesterday, Saturday, I was spending some time with him. And it was a father son meetup in Bonier community center. We did that, and it was powerful. So I'm going to spend as much time with my father. [00:55:33] Speaker C: I just wanted to add one thing. Rob. I've been meaning to say that the tough love thing, I think it's really important for fathers to show up with compassion, too. And the simple act of giving our child a hug and saying, it's okay. I think sometimes we might think we have to be the tough love. Like, dads get home and you're like, come on, stop this. [00:56:03] Speaker A: Right? [00:56:04] Speaker C: But I think sometimes it's really like, honestly, I feel like the most powerful thing I do with my son, he's almost five, just kneel down and hug him, and it resets him. And so I just want to think more about in terms of manhood. I don't think it's all about being. How tough you could be, how strong you could be. But the vulnerability, compassion, human to human, I think that that's where the power lies right now. [00:56:35] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. Gentlemen, this was a powerful conversation. It was very cathartic as well. For me, in many ways. I don't have a lot, really, to add to that, and that in itself is powerful. But to say that it's okay to cry. It's okay to cry. We have these false perceptions of what it takes to be a man, what it takes to be a father, what it takes to show our children or society that. You mentioned things like tough love, the importance of kneeling down, meeting them eye to eye, because what they see is a giant, as opposed to someone that's giving them information, love to know that it's okay to receive this information as a reaction to something that they may have done or not done. And that's important to hug, to embrace. I'm not disputing there are areas for tough love, but there are areas to be really genuinely a father's love. And one of the things that I took away from my dad's passing, and it was highlighted to me from a very good friend of mine. And that we don't see at the time, is the way I might have gotten a certain level of knowledge that I would always turn to him for, even if it was a job interview, for any information at all. So even though for ten years he was sick, I got some of my sayings, the way I communicate. Kobo do eat sponge cake. Cockroach. I don't write in fall party monkey no which street a climb, things like that that bring a smile to people's face when they hear it. And I didn't realize I was picking these things up from him all the time. So I would like to close to say it's okay to cry. Love your fathers. Of course. Love your mothers. If you're without a father for whether he's past, whether he's not present, your mother's doing the best that she can, and the community around you are doing the best that they can. And to be that, that you miss or that you're not even aware of that. Like you said, jay, the absence of your dad has made you into a better man in certain circumstances. And apart from your choice of football team, of course. So, that being said, we like to close. Just to say that, remember, live with the living. You're not assured tomorrow you have to live in the present. Hence, it's called a gift. And the past is the past. So do what you need to do for yourself, more importantly, for yourself. Embrace your dad. Have that conversation, that level of peace. So Johanse, Wyatt, Jay, always a pleasure. Really, really good convo today. [00:59:35] Speaker D: Thank you. [00:59:36] Speaker A: Thank you. To everyone that's been listening viewing, we'd like to thank our sponsors. I didn't say anything about the sponsors. We will be sitting on these seats and this nice set if it wasn't for racetrack. Thank you to Jameson. Jameson vitamins for keeping us healthy, keeping us going. Keep joining us. Keep looking on us. Like I said, the conversation, this episode has ended, but the conversation still you. We have to talk about baby daddy and people who want 1012 kids. The reasoning behind some of that. Our friend Niall, I'm going to bring him here for shorter to have that conversation. But we spoke about manhood here today. Fatherhood. Manhood. Thanks for joining us.