Can women have guy friends

[00:00:05] Speaker A: Thanks for joining us again on manhood, another conversation about all things man boys. I mean, we even talk about women because all that is part of manhood and what it takes to be a man. And again, I always want to reiterate that what it takes to be a man is not based on testosterone or whether you like sports. It's simply based on a behavior and your moral standard. And that's what we're trying to communicate and get across here in these conversations that we have. I hope you've been enjoying it so far and taking note of a lot of what we are saying, because as much as we try to bring some element of humor and meet people where they're at, the topics and the message is one that is very, very serious. I'm delighted with our panel today. Johanse Iodk, behavior change consultant, one of my really good friends, though we don't support the same football side. Jason Williams. [00:01:03] Speaker B: Yes. [00:01:05] Speaker A: And the one and only Niall McNish. So last conversation, we were talking about, why do men cheat? And of course, we then went on to, why do women cheat? Why do we cheat? And that really brought about some really engaging conversation and gave me pause for transgressions in the past. Today's topic is specifically now, and it's going to be a big one. Can women have guy friends? I'm just going to open the floor. [00:01:45] Speaker C: All right, I'll put it a little. Jenna, can men and women be friends? [00:01:51] Speaker B: Right. [00:01:52] Speaker C: And I would say no, firstly, because. And be friends and just stay friends. [00:02:00] Speaker A: Right. [00:02:02] Speaker C: To me, what entails being a friend is a sharing of certain intimate details of your life. And when you share that with someone, eventually of the opposite sex, eventually feelings will start, right. More than platonic feelings. So you could have a female associate, let's say, okay, you're married, in a committed relationship, you could have somebody of the opposite sex as an associate, as a colleague. When you reach the realms of friend, that danger could start because there's emotional sharing, there's intimate sharing, and both of you all will kind of get into each other's life in a certain degree that could start to grow things. [00:02:44] Speaker A: But, Jay, I just want to. Go ahead. I have my point. [00:02:48] Speaker B: I was just going to say, I mean, intimate sharing, yes. But does that necessarily mean the relationship will get to a place of intimacy? And I do feel so, especially if there's no kind of sexual energy or no attraction, because don't get me wrong, it have friends, female friends. You will have who you might actually be a type. And if they slip, they slide. [00:03:10] Speaker C: Well, then there's not your friend. [00:03:12] Speaker B: When I start off as friends, but I mean a position, a situation presents itself, a nice, cool night somewhere in Tobago, let's be real, as opposed to, let's say a friend that's your friend, and that could be cool. It could be wherever, but you're cool. [00:03:32] Speaker A: But I want to really explore. I even want to contest that. But just to touch on what start up what Johansey said, where's that line evident? So you always hear when you're dating, are we an item now? People ask the question, at what point do you become an item? Are you dating? Does it mean that you can date other people? When those conversations don't happen? So if I have a colleague, at what point is it evident that we are now friends? If I'm your colleague for eight years and we have shared some conversations, even if it's a case of how that party was or how that lime was, or my condolences or congratulations on your wedding, these are things that when do you cross over into what could be seen as a friendship? And therefore it still comes down to the point of can I be friends? And to touch on what you said, attraction, mattraction. Once you reach a point of, like you said, you call is a coal light in Tobago. Man is man and opportunity is opportunity. And there are times, Jay, let's be. [00:04:49] Speaker C: Honest, fellas, woman is woman, too. [00:04:52] Speaker A: You know, those things that I've heard. I mean, I've heard conversations about these things like peepholes and things like that, right? And lights off, whatever the case may be and something happening, does it matter, that particular point? [00:05:08] Speaker B: I think it does. I think it boils down again, everybody will be an individual when it comes to this particular development, and people could only really speak on themselves and what they'll do. But I think, sincerely, if you're in tune with yourself, don't get me wrong, it's not easy. It takes a lot of self restraint. But I think you could put it in such a way that it won't go across that particular line, as opposed to if you really have an attraction to somebody, I think it's a little more difficult. And if somebody asks, what are we? I remember somebody once saying that, you tell the girl that we are the will, we are the children, we are the children, we are the will. What are we? What kind of question is that? [00:05:51] Speaker A: People should know. [00:05:52] Speaker B: We don't have to ask these questions to define relationships. You must have that friendship. [00:05:55] Speaker D: Now, women need to ask that question to define relationships, because if left up to men, we will just go. We will ride our bus until the end. We'll never actually give them a point. But to bring it back to if women could have male friends, right. The reality is that I say yes simply because women get inundated with men whole day and they get to choose who they decide they want to get with. Right? So it really boils on to if it is a man is okay with himself, of her having options or options so close within her sphere. That's literally what we're talking about here. I say yes. I say it's not a problem. [00:06:35] Speaker A: Personally, I want to bring it back to the original question, right. And put more clarity on the question. Can women have guy friends? But it is not necessarily that the woman themselves or the woman herself. [00:06:54] Speaker C: May. [00:06:54] Speaker A: Be attracted to the man, but the man. So in other words, let's flip it. Let's say no. He wants a jump in. A man is just there in the wings. And at this point, he might even realize if the opportunity was there. [00:07:08] Speaker D: She says, look, nobody's a friend. [00:07:12] Speaker C: If the man want to jam you, he's not your friend. [00:07:16] Speaker D: I don't understand that. I can accept that answer. [00:07:19] Speaker A: What do you mean? Yeah, you answer, what is a friend? [00:07:22] Speaker C: Let us define maybe a lover in weight. You're waiting for an opportunity, but then it's not a friend because friend, unless all together is platonic, right. Me and my wife could be our friends and we together, right? But if she have somebody who is a male friend who looking for the opportunity to jump, then that is not her friend. [00:07:52] Speaker A: This man here living in a utopian world. No, you live in a utopian world. [00:07:58] Speaker B: Again, I go back to my original point of intimacy. Intimacy changes everything. [00:08:02] Speaker C: Now, intimacy is no, only sex. Well, I talk in sex, with sex. [00:08:07] Speaker B: Okay, sex then, right. All right. It end up going down that particular road. That is where no feelings get involved and the dynamics change. Up until that point, it's a friendship. [00:08:16] Speaker C: Correct. [00:08:18] Speaker A: But you could be being friends with a woman doesn't necessarily mean you friends with the boyfriend or the husband or anything else. You are still could be friends with. [00:08:28] Speaker C: That person, but you want a jam. [00:08:30] Speaker A: But we are not necessarily going in there saying, you want a jam. Men are opportunistic. We had other conversations where we talk about polyamorous relationships and people. [00:08:41] Speaker B: But I think the key is also. The key is knowing your partner. And if I'm dealing somebody, and that's my guild, it get to the place of does your wife, you will know what she might be attracted to, who she own. And if the man kind of. That is why men as digger horrors with other men, because you know personally that this man actually might capture the eyes and attention of a woman. But if it's a guy totally out of her spectrum, mightn't dig a horror. You don't feel threatened. [00:09:11] Speaker A: That's the thing. [00:09:13] Speaker C: Out of her spectrum. [00:09:15] Speaker A: So the woman may not act on it. So a woman can have a guy friend, but let's face it, the guy himself might be like, hey, she's our best. She's out of my league. But if an opportunity presented it himself, he will never act on it because he would lose that friendship. Because she is not interested. [00:09:32] Speaker C: One way friendship. So she's his friend, but he's not her friend. [00:09:35] Speaker A: But you have this understanding of what because you want a jam means you're not a friend. [00:09:44] Speaker D: Friends with benefits is not a thing in your will. [00:09:47] Speaker C: No, that is just a relationship with sex. You're not really friends. And or sometimes you see that friends with benefits does a couple by one or both people because of door and don't want to commit. What they really have is a relationship. They're really in a relationship. [00:10:06] Speaker D: Sometimes. My friend, my close friend that I will look at as yo, another interested. [00:10:14] Speaker A: Hold on, guys. Hold on. Hold on. Dictionary meaning for your benefit. The meaning of friend. Dictionary meaning a person with whom one has a bond of mutual affection. Let me read that again. A person with whom one has a bond of mutual affection. I take your point. Typically one exclusive of sexual or family relations. Typically. [00:10:40] Speaker C: Typically. [00:10:41] Speaker A: Typically. Mutual affection doesn't mean there's not an exception. Having the exception, mutual affection. [00:10:47] Speaker C: Right. If she don't want to jam, but he want to jam, then it's not mutual affections. [00:10:53] Speaker A: Typically. The word is. You want me to google the word typically. [00:10:58] Speaker C: All right, I'm going with typically, right? [00:11:00] Speaker A: Because there's an exception. So generally I have female friends, and I can tell you I don't want to jam them. Not because they're not attractive, but the friendship means way more than anything being skewed in there. And of course, I also want to be faithful to my partner. But I wouldn't say that in the past I didn't have female friends, that I may have wanted something more or would have taken the opportunity on a cool night in Tobago. [00:11:28] Speaker B: So I don't want to ask them. Let's be real because real talk. [00:11:31] Speaker A: Real talk. That's all we are. [00:11:32] Speaker B: Plenty of times women will transition into friendship because at some point, at some moment, friend zone, early part of the relationship, when you saw this person get to know them. You wanted to, but sometimes you realize the person not your new, the energy not there. So you just segue no winter friendship. Because they come like a bowl your ball and your ball wide, right? [00:11:51] Speaker D: Got a ball, right? [00:11:52] Speaker B: Your bowl a ball already early. The ball was wide, but you don't want to make it look like your foxcaghetti grape. So you see normal and it end up now developing into a friendship really have nice ways and you're cool. But you bowl a ball already and you're going to Bowley ball again. [00:12:13] Speaker D: But if she say cool, light it tobago up six. [00:12:19] Speaker C: Exactly. I see. That's my point. No, but I still make it. [00:12:22] Speaker D: But you're still friends. [00:12:24] Speaker C: Listen, thus far. Thus far I go in with evidence, right? [00:12:28] Speaker D: Right. [00:12:28] Speaker C: I am okay to change in my thought to know, but I have not seen that happen, right? All men. This is not any William. All men have spoken. [00:12:37] Speaker A: Let me get him in here. [00:12:38] Speaker C: Typically for your answer that say they have this friendship with somebody eventually. And even me observing eventually something could or does happen in that. And the only reason it does not happen is because maybe it was circumstantial. But if you're saying at first I don't want to sleep with this person, but if you get the opportunity, you will, right? [00:13:03] Speaker A: It's not a conscious thing. It's not a conscious thing. I'm saying that people in the same way colleagues can develop into. You could develop a friendship as a result of being a colleague over extended period of time. If that friendship, any status of that friendship changes, whether it be the person that they may be with, you get a divorce or they're no longer with that person, your circumstances change. You may be working on a project. You see things that you didn't notice before. Things develop. You always. People say that person is now my best friend, right. [00:13:32] Speaker C: Let me give a biological perspective of this, right? So when two people meet each other for the first time, you're always on guard because you don't know this person, whether it is male, female. Exactly. You don't know this person. So you're on guard. Right? But the more that you see this person, the more you interact with this person naturally, your guard go down chemistry. And I believe it's serotonin is the hormone that is produced when you are wrong. Somebody you're comfortable with, right. So the more you're around this person, the more comfortable you get. And I'm going biological. So you talk about conscious just now. So I'm going unconscious now, unconsciously. Your guard. Open your guard open somebody. So if it's a male and female, your guard open. And that's where the feelings come in sometimes. And you don't even know where it come from. Because even though you don't follow true on something, right. You might say, well, how come I feel in this way about this person? Or the person might pass and touch you bye by mistake and you feel a certain. Or you're studying. I want to talk to this person and why I want to talk to him or her. Boy. What I'm saying is it happens unconsciously. And let me add a caveat to that quick. It's like a woman passing every day and a man suits and she. And she died. Not she typed, she's not on him at all. Right. But every day. Suit and air, darling. You're looking at every day. Every day. Eventually she will realize he's not dangerous the first time she see him. He might be dangerous eventually. Eventually, right. So let me say it happened for a month straight. After a while when she passed by him one day he's not there and he didn't suit. She will miss him. Maybe not even consciously. It's unconsciously something that happens, an attraction. Part of that to it is unconscious. So therefore, if you're talking to somebody with them, which is your friend, if you're using your friend so your colleague, you'd see them every day. You're not consciously, I don't want to sleep with this person. But you've seen them every day. Every day. Eventually that occurs. [00:15:35] Speaker A: I hate to break the momentum. I hate to break the momentum. But we certainly coming back and continue with that biology and that science because there's more than any pestle with regards to that. And we're going to turn it on its head now because we keep saying, can women have guy friends? But the truth is, if women could have guy friends or we are saying according to Steve Harvey, no, they can't. Right. The question is then is it then that your male partner, women can then have a girlfriend? Because then can males have a female friend? Can they have a female friend? So it turns it on his head. So guys, be very careful with what you're really saying or accepting. But we take a short break. So I'd really like to thank you for staying with us and to thank our sponsors, Jameson and racetrack. A really snazzy set. You know, everyone who comes on the set says they feel a sense of testosterone being on this set. And part of that testosterone is not necessarily what it takes to be a man. I mean, it's part of the biology, as my friend here was discussing just before the break. But it's all about standards and morals. And speaking of morals, speaking of biology, this is where we now turn things on the head. Because the opening question, the opening salvo was all about can women have guy friends? But if we're seeing, and I've looked at quite a few podcasts, if men across the globe are saying, no, women can't have guy friends, then it means that all friends are supposed to be female, female, male, male. Because if I'm saying to my partner, oh, you can't have any guy friends, because I know what guys are thinking, what's going on in their head, then can she not ask me? So therefore, how come you can have girlfriends? It means that aren't you a guy? It means you are thinking the same way. So be very careful with exactly what you're willing to accept or not accept and what your position is. And based on that, I see a smiling there like, oh, my God, people are going to be set up now in a particular way. But that's the truth. On this show, we are about being real. We're meeting people where they are. We're talking real things, and we're not about being false or being what is good for the goose. Must be good for the gander. I agree with that being said, no. [00:18:19] Speaker C: The answer is no. Men can't have female friends either. [00:18:22] Speaker D: That is weird. [00:18:23] Speaker A: This guy. [00:18:24] Speaker D: Don't you how unbalanced that is as humans for us to say that if I in a relationship, I can't have any female friends. You're not learning any skills. [00:18:34] Speaker C: I'm not saying don't talk to females. [00:18:36] Speaker D: And I'm not saying don't have friends. We talk about people confidence that you could speak with. [00:18:41] Speaker C: Why confiding in somebody else besides your husband or your wife? [00:18:44] Speaker D: Because they might have other things. [00:18:46] Speaker C: Some of my best professional environments. Yeah. [00:18:50] Speaker D: But again, let's go back down to learning skills, right? As humans, we have to be as balanced as possible. They might have things. They might have. Let's just say I don't have a wife, right? I do have a girlfriend. Am I able to have a female friend at that point? [00:19:04] Speaker C: If you don't have a wife or a girlfriend, it could maybe start as a friendship. But even why you decide to talk to this person, right? It could depends on, okay, if you decide, I want to talk to this person because they're nice to talk to, right. That doesn't necessarily mean as a friend, that could be an associate because you haven't shared anything. You're not close or anything like that. [00:19:27] Speaker D: But as everything, it grows into something, into something more, into friendship. [00:19:32] Speaker C: So you all haven't slept together yet, right? [00:19:33] Speaker D: That's correct. [00:19:34] Speaker C: Right. At that point, when you get that close to the person, you will develop feelings. [00:19:40] Speaker D: Well, right, but I can develop feelings. I can develop feelings. [00:19:43] Speaker A: I am struggling. [00:19:44] Speaker D: What is the word feeling in this particular situation? [00:19:46] Speaker B: I think we need to go back to the word friend. Webcam. Robert gave us the dictionary. A lot of us in life, I realize, is acquaintances. We have the word friend. [00:19:55] Speaker D: Okay, fine. [00:19:56] Speaker B: I could call friends probably on one hand, and it will boil down to people probably from foundation, which will be like a cosmo, somebody that I grew up with, somebody that I real connect with in school and probably, let's say from the workplace, most people have, I would say three, four. Some people. One friend. [00:20:13] Speaker D: Okay, friend. [00:20:14] Speaker B: If we're talking about it as real friend now, for me, do I have like a real close female friend? I could probably say one. And again, it have no sexual energy there. That is just more so strange. We could be wherever she could come out in wherever. I know we're not going through that. [00:20:33] Speaker A: There's a question. [00:20:36] Speaker D: If you slip, would she slap you for six? [00:20:38] Speaker B: No. I don't know. [00:20:40] Speaker A: Two of my closest friends are female and there's nothing there. Nothing happening in any circumstance. [00:20:45] Speaker B: I think when a girl said, I call your brother, and you said, I see a gil as a sister, that is when friendship, I think. Because those are the words women use to describe exactly. When you are no harm and no threat to them. I feel you and say, they say, niall, die, Robert, die. Jesus, my brother. And then you will also associate them and you'll see them as sister. Because let's be real. Nobody looking at a sister or the brother in our way. But it's very rare. You probably might get one in your lifetime. I can't see other females in your life as friends, them as acquaintances. [00:21:17] Speaker D: Okay. [00:21:17] Speaker B: Because let's be real. That same cool night in spaceide one rain falling after three in the morning, all I come back from a Juvia party is blast. [00:21:25] Speaker A: I want to bring it back because I don't want us to go. We're talking about the definition of friends and acquaintances here. But whatever we understand by friend, friends are friends. You guys are my friends. Whether we talk every day, whether, you know, what happened with my life and all the other things like that, matters not. The fact is there may be levels of friendship. There may be friends that you go to for certain things and other ones, like you said, could be a day ones your real, as we said, we cross over to Morel Brethren, Morel Cistern. But that being said, the topic, as we say, I want to make it clear. I am one to say women can have guy friends, but the woman also needs to be cognizant to the fact that don't be naive to the fact that something could happen. And guys, likewise women, because people naturally, you know, they say opportunity makes a thief. If somebody's passing and they're not a painter, say, for example, or anyone is passing and you see 1000 us on a table, you're not necessarily, you didn't come there to steal, but you see that there you might be struggling a bit, right? Exactly. But that doesn't mean that they don't be friends. So when we talk about, let's talk about our own stories here about this proverbial shoulder to cry on, well, I. [00:22:59] Speaker B: Have learned through my experience that as much as what you're seeing here on paper, it makes sense. It's very much a good working template. In practice it will work out because I have learned and I end up losing out in a relationship based on me being adamant and standing firm and saying, hey, that is my female friend and I know them before I know you. So you got to respect them. Because day in my life, long before I know you. And she didn't give way and I didn't give way. And eventually she was leaving. She went, I'm leaving, I'm leaving. And I stand up there in a kind of bubble now, right? And I get to realize now you have to kind of almost put some of them girls on pause, female friends, be cool with them. And I realize you got to kind of put them on pause, especially if you want the relationship. [00:23:48] Speaker C: Why are they put them on pause? [00:23:49] Speaker B: Because women are seeing that they are like an aviv at all. They are going to see that not. [00:23:54] Speaker D: Everybody mature and able to have the opposite. [00:24:01] Speaker C: Naivety, right? When somebody naive, that means you don't even know what's going on, right? So that means you could get catch, right? And you don't even know. So I'm going back with the biological part of it, right? Sometimes what causes navity? [00:24:13] Speaker A: Give me a story inside of the biology. [00:24:15] Speaker C: All right. [00:24:17] Speaker A: I could relate morely scenario. [00:24:19] Speaker C: And I'll give you something quite personal too, right? I grew up hearing that certain things about my father in terms of him not being faithful to my mother, in terms of running on women hunting. And I said, I swear to myself, I'm not going to be that person. So from young, maybe even anywhere between eight and ten, I remember reading psychology books on women and how to treat women and things like that, and understanding the plight of women with men, et cetera. So I say, you know what? I going to treat as many women good as possible. And you know what? I'm just going to be their friend. I'm not going to go after them for nothing. So as many women. And then I remember I was in form two or form three and stone. Then I remember on Valentine's day writing five different poems, trying to be unique and saying, wait, no, I becoming what I didn't want to become, but thinking all of these girls in my mind were my friends. But because of spending time talking to them, being that shoulder to cry on, showing them love. And I'm going to say love, platonic love, the feelings develop whether or not I wanted it to. And I said, but how? I came to this point and I thought maybe something wrong with me. But then I started observing it throughout the years with other people, male and female, and realizing if you continue along this path, feelings will eventually develop. And again, I open to change in it to know. But I haven't had any empirical evidence to show otherwise. [00:25:58] Speaker A: In school at those times, good guys finish last. Later on they may want to. There's a whole other conversation. [00:26:05] Speaker D: Again, let me go in to say that to the nation, shoulders of our legs, not tears, right? But we move on to. Let me give you a story, right? Let me give you a story. So I had a friend. Most of my friends are actually female. [00:26:23] Speaker C: Let me do this, right. We had a friend. [00:26:25] Speaker D: I had a friend like as in over 20 years friendship, friend, right? [00:26:32] Speaker C: Had past tense. [00:26:33] Speaker D: Well, we still friends to this day. But I'm going to give a story now that may give some evidence of what you're saying to make your pointer. But we were friends for over 20 years. I see her kids grew up, as in I was always there part of her life, right? And one day she was dong bad in space. A cold night in spaceide happened, baby dad wasn't giving, blah, blah, blah. So she asked to borrow some meat and a loan that he meet alone. Any meat. This is a temporary loan. [00:27:11] Speaker A: For a moment there, I was really hoping. When you said some meat, I was hoping you meant like a cup of sugar. That analogy I didn't realize. [00:27:19] Speaker D: A little bit of sausage. I lent it to her. I obliged. It made her feel better. It made her feel wanted. It made her feel like it filled up. She felt like a woman. Again, which is what she was valuing the day after we went back to how we were until the day. I feel like I need to get my payment back. I would like some salami at some point, maybe if ever. I feel like, hey, I don't feel like a man right now. I remember that loan that I gave back in the day. [00:27:58] Speaker A: I just want to say nation. Remember we spoke about when I said the definition of a friend and we spoke about typically. So typically, there's always an exception. Meet Nile McNish. [00:28:09] Speaker C: I don't know if that is the exception or friends. I think that is the rule, not the exception. [00:28:14] Speaker D: But we still. [00:28:15] Speaker C: Cool. [00:28:15] Speaker D: Like, think about it. [00:28:17] Speaker C: Cool, right? Always not friends. [00:28:19] Speaker D: But wait, I find that I was even more of a friend than anybody. I did what most friends want. I was there for her inside and out. When you really think about, think about it. I gave her what she needed. [00:28:34] Speaker C: That is not a friend. That's something a little more than a friend, maybe less than a husband or a boyfriend. Right. And I don't want to get too semantic, but that's not your friend. You all are not friends. [00:28:46] Speaker D: I don't know how. [00:28:48] Speaker C: Then before we said friends with benefits, we come back because you all are friends. But they are those benefits. Then you all are not friends. [00:28:56] Speaker B: Well, I think what's important based on your definition, I think what's important and what I get to understand in your journey, if you meet someone and you meet a girl and you and a girl developing a vibe and you're seen potential here, I think it's important to kind of introduce her to your friends and let her see from the onset this is your circle. And if they are female person in the mix, let her know, this is my sister in from a long time and see how that dynamic work out. Because sometimes, funny enough, your girl and your female friend does end up real close, as in they like sisters. And then sometimes the chemistry off, they should all like cutting. And in that moment, you have to make a decision. And most times you go with where you're getting the warmth when you come, which is with your woman, I guess. [00:29:39] Speaker D: Yes. [00:29:40] Speaker B: And sometimes friendships have to kind of fool up, which I find real sad because again, these are people in your life for years before you meet this particular person. But it's, again, as a man, how serious you want that relationship to establish itself. Because love again and relationship is a choice. And if you make a choice, that, in my mind, as I learn the game now, if I make a choice that this is what I want. Sometimes them thing are kind of, you got to kind of ease off, especially if it's a female dynamic. Gomez feel threatened, too, within our vibe. [00:30:11] Speaker A: So it comes to that moment again. On this show, we always pride ourselves to say that even though there's equal opinion, the opinion is never just based on what that person is. So I don't want us to be walking away thinking this person thinks this or this person thinks that it's a conversation that's happening. And even though it might be four persons, the irony is, even though it seems like three have one side of an opinion to a fourth, it still comes down to an equal viewpoint because it's a conversation. We're taking a short break, and during that break, I wish you guys could hear some of the behind the scenes loan officer here. [00:30:57] Speaker D: Loan officer. [00:31:09] Speaker A: Conversation. The conversation is about, can women have guy friends? Can men have women friends? The definition came about about what is a friend? What is an acquaintance? As some may say, can you have a friend jam and go back to being that friend? There's so much conversation happening here. And again, I'd really love if some of you at some point will be open to seeing some of the behind the scenes conversations, any conversations that lead to eventually what we then dialogue when the cameras come back on. So mixed feelings, mixed emotions. A lot of yeses, a lot of no's, still some very vague areas. I'm not sure I've transitioned to any particular side as yet. I'm still of the opinion, yes, a man can have a female friend and yes, a female can have a guy friend. And even though in certain cases things may materialize and become something else, I don't think that that takes away from the fact that they were friends or could be friends initially. Circumstances, human nature, biology, all of these other things come into play. And I want to say to you, if you had a friend, whether you call it a friend, acquaintance, colleague, whatever tickles your pickle, your Hunsi, right. For a particular definition. And let's go. Really, out there, you're in a cave, you go on a hike. And don't tell me that you should have gone on a hike any first place with a woman. Right? We play it out here. You're in a cave, cave, caves in. And you're there for, you see tiny movies. You end up having to go and hunt together, be together. All of these different things happen. You live, right? So over a period of time, you want to tell me Blue Lagoon. For those of you who are old enough to know, big movie, big movie. Something wouldn't happen, something wouldn't transpire. [00:33:11] Speaker C: Yes. And that's what I'm saying. [00:33:13] Speaker A: So that point is not your friend anymore, because you clearly can't. [00:33:17] Speaker C: Yeah. If something happens, that's not your friend. [00:33:20] Speaker A: So what changes, nation? [00:33:21] Speaker D: What changes? [00:33:23] Speaker C: All right, so I was being a bit hard and fast, right? [00:33:27] Speaker A: Correct. [00:33:28] Speaker C: I felt for a reason, right. Now we use in these terms friends, associates, and transition into friendship, colleagues, et cetera. Right. Some of it could be semantics because human behavior is a dynamic thing in general. And I will go back to even what we started with, the pillar with manhood, about being true to yourself as a man. You got to be honest with yourself. Right. You know the type of feelings you have for a female, whether it is you're developing a new relationship, old relationship, however long it is, friends, et cetera. So you are to know exactly how you feel. Now, you can't account for the other person's feelings, right? But you're accounting for yourself. You would know if you're talking to this person a little too much, if you start to feel a certain way right now, even if you'll never cross the platonic lines physically, you know how you're feeling. You know, sometimes if you're in an intimate moment with somebody else, you might be thinking about our person. You know exactly what is going on. And I'm going with that honesty part because sometimes we say, well, nah, nothing ever happened between I will never think which, or she never come away. But, you know, that is, you know in your heart that you would do something. You know in your heart that this person like you, but she married you married. But if Oli was married, you know when something more than platonic or you. [00:34:50] Speaker A: Might have been friends before, and you simply, as Jay mentioned, you simply don't want to lose that friend. You want your cake and you want to eat. [00:34:59] Speaker C: No, I'm not only going from a sexual or physical point of view, even. Let's go to the emotional point. You have a wife, you have a girlfriend, right? To me, that's supposed to be the person that you have most of your emotional space with, you share the most with. So if you start to feel really something happened, but I really want to run to talk to Susie instead of your wife or Susie instead of your girlfriend. No, nothing to anybody named Susie, right? You know that something wrong and you should be pulling back. And I'm just going with that honesty part because human behavior can predict everything, right? It have no. Hard and fast. Exactly what is a friend? My definition? Your definition. The saudi north, the west definition. But to be honest with yourself, you know when that line crossing most of the times. Because there's naivety, there is biology. But you know when you're crossing that. [00:35:49] Speaker D: Line most of the times. Right? So what about a man who's bisexual, he with his wife, but all of a sudden he started think about he breadren while he's stroking he gal in a son. Is he not to have male friends now? [00:36:05] Speaker A: Friends just lock off at that point. [00:36:07] Speaker D: He's just supposed to be by himself. So that it just goes there. And the reason why I ask that question is to show that, well, he's. [00:36:14] Speaker C: Not to have that male friend if you're thinking about stroking. [00:36:18] Speaker D: No. [00:36:21] Speaker A: Don'T die. [00:36:22] Speaker D: So then you're making my point. So in other words, let us stop generalizing that I can't have women friends. [00:36:30] Speaker A: Correct. [00:36:30] Speaker D: Let us say I can't have that woman friend as part of my life because I have a certain type of feeling towards this woman. So I need to be mature within myself and know maybe this is not a person I should expose myself and my relationship to based on my understanding of my needs and my girlfriend's needs here. [00:36:52] Speaker C: I get to realize too, I'm all in on that. Go ahead. [00:36:54] Speaker B: I get to realize within my observation again within the life and within my journey if marriage is a pinnacle. Look at scenarios where even as a breadren, so nal is my brethren, we rule in. I'm a real partner. Nal get. Come and get married now. Our friendship actually will take a little knock. Even our male friendship, as in I can't call you up and say song forge. We can. I can't call you up and say week. You now kind of have to get passport stamped. Kind of say that as a joke, meaning, well, it's not like I get permission, but it's just you don't want to rock that boat so early. So I realized that even friendship and friend, the dynamic you feel and you have with your male breadrens is kind of Gannock will see at your female friends. So in essence, I think ultimately, once you go to that particular place, it come like that's your friend come like you had to not say lock off your friends because you need them still. You still need your circle. But the dependence and I guess the whole connection do be as much compared to when you're free, single and disengaged. So that's just my observation. [00:38:00] Speaker A: Okay. I've been very pensive. I love it when you have pause. When you have pause for thought. I came in here with a particular thought. And even though I may still side with a particular opinion or how I definitely want to present myself, you guys have certainly gave me a lot of pause. And I'm sure to all our viewers and listeners out there, I just want to throw in maybe, and as you quite rightly mentioned, nile, we've sort of broad brush this thing to male female heterosexual relationships. But what happens to gay relationships and bisexuals? [00:38:43] Speaker B: I think lots of women, men don't mind if the actually men, some men very cool with the woman having gay brethren because. [00:38:53] Speaker A: Correct. [00:38:54] Speaker B: Because they know demand. Not on her in our way. [00:38:56] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:38:57] Speaker B: The big drawing is intimacy. [00:39:03] Speaker A: But I could tell you some stories, I mean, I won't call any names now, of people who started off having male gay friends and a male gay friend became that shoulder, legs up on the shoulder, so instead of the shoulders. [00:39:18] Speaker C: And that reinforcing. My point, that reinforcing. [00:39:24] Speaker B: And then it's. [00:39:31] Speaker A: I want to throw in another scenario before we close, before we close here today, to say that I am six foot three ball red man, and I can say that I have lost all my female friends. There have been instances where people really close to me, the dynamic has changed purely because, like you said, they're in relationships or just generally with the advent of social media and people just talking and the negativities and people just seeing certain things that they don't know about, the assumption is he's a player, he must be. Boy, if that woman with him, something must be happening. Or I saw them out having lunch or they went to dinner or their friends, watch yourself there. And that play on that can also be feeding in to these things, because I can tell you the two women who I have had in terms of, to create distance as a result of what's been fed naturally. Optics. Perception is fact. So the husbands or boyfriends, not that they believe anything has happened, but because of the optics of it, they've asked to be pulled away or they question or anything that happens there. And for me, it's been a very sad period because I'm like, I know with everything in me, absolutely nothing is happening or will happen. Because the nature of that friendship is on a spiritual basis. It's on guidance, it's on so many other things of sharing things that I know you believe you should be doing with your wife, but you have horses for courses and you have friends for different things in certain areas. And the person I'm with might be someone who can spiritually guide me. Hence, you have godfathers and godmothers, et cetera. And they may be the person you turn to for another point of view, another perspective. Yes, another perspective. But as a result of look or attraction or the perception of they must be banging, they must be doing something, you've lost that person. So there are instances, and I'm stating my position as part of my closing. Women can have guy friends and guys can have women friends, and whether bisexual, you can have male and female friends. But it comes down to one thing, as we talk about, on manhood, about morals, and you knowing that this friendship is based on friendship and you know to yourself you're not attracted to that person in any way, form or fashion apart from what that friendship brings. And even more so in that particular scenario, being cognizant of the environment. So don't go in a corner, don't go say, I'm going to party with my friends because she dress up nice and you're taken out and the wife is staying home with the kids. So you're going out with your girl, your hot friends, and you're all partying and whining and all these other things. Smarten up. [00:42:32] Speaker B: Interesting. You want. [00:42:37] Speaker A: Is your clothes in her. [00:42:38] Speaker C: I know that. [00:42:41] Speaker A: Make it count. [00:42:42] Speaker C: What I would say is, to be honest, what I was saying a little bit of before, whether however you define a friend or you define associate or you define a colleague, is to be honest about how you feel about somebody and what you were saying about the optics of things. I agree with Shandi, very appearance of evil, right? Whether or not you read the Bible or not. Shandy, very appearance of evil. Also the morality part of it. Because as human, we won't only be attracted to one person, right? Whether you're in a 50 year marriage or not, you would feel attraction to someone else. So to be honest about that, in terms of how good you want to develop a certain relationship, whether you want to call it a friendship, whether you want to call it an associate, et cetera, be honest about that. And also you would know you would be able to even feel, whether it is from that person or even from yourself. When something go into the realm of. For want of a better word, inappropriate for want of a better word, you're becoming so that close with somebody that it's taken away from the emotional. I even go in the physical part of it because to me, once you have sex with somebody, across the platonic lines, but even now, the emotional part of it, you have a friend of the opposite sex. You're sharing so much that sometimes you forget to tell your wife or you forget to tell your husband certain things or you tell that person first before you tell your wife or your husband. I do believe that. Right. So it's being honest about it in terms of yourself, however you define it and stick to whatever is your moral, moral values. [00:44:28] Speaker B: I mean, I went down that road already in the sense that agile had me there as a friend. All the emotional sharing and I just then I get invested. I was much younger the time I was a NATO man at the time. That was no action transport only just take and drop. And she just is sharing and I get in involved and I feeling so much in the mix and she was not me. And I feel away and I realized that it can't work, however, is an individual kind of scenario. And I think if you have somebody who understanding somebody who both of you all share particular ethos and the chemistry and the communication, open and honest, you could be accommodating to her male friends. She could be accommodating to your female friends. But naturally, as the relationship, I think get deeper and grow into a realm of, again, that benchmark, as I mentioned, which might be marriage, naturally things are just kind of fall off for some reason. It's not because anybody fall out. People, I think just understand that, you know what, this is a whole different life. There's a decision to make to build this life with somebody. So I might just pull back. I'll pull back a little bit. And probably it could work for some, it can't work for others. But I think ultimately it's based on the individual and that level of communication and how open you are. And if the person willing to accept it, if not, I think you have to me, I learn now to kind of peg back, tune it on and say, you know what? If this is what I want, and I want our relationship as man and woman to work out, I'll have to kind of put that on the back burner for the sake of peace, because I value peace more than anything else. I want peace. Fuck, I don't own that. See me? I don't want my ears when I come home. I don't want. No, we're not on that by now. [00:46:29] Speaker D: Let me add to that, right? First of all, as your wife, let's just go with wife being the highest definition. That's supposed to be your best friend. That's supposed to be your paramount person. In fact, I wouldn't even say your best friend. That's supposed to be a reflection of yourself. In other words, we are one, right? And I feel as together, us being one, we could decide who that each other have as individuals in each other's lives. Because, again, my wife and I are a unit. So I may, with my wife's permission, have someone outside of our relationship where I could communicate and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it could be someone that I came into the relationship with. But if this is the person that I'm choosing, she has to be okay with the fact that this person is my friend that I claiming my friend, right? Even if I loaned her some meat many, many years ago, right? And of course, my wife would be the one who I would be seeing these things to. Hey, a cold night in spaceide, a lunar, some meet. You understand? This is the situation. However, I watch her kids grow up, come and meet her, meet her kids. And she's supposed to be able, at least as the person who I intend to marry, to understand and grow with me and the rest of my friends, and vice versa. I want to meet her friends, whether it be female or male, and who may have loaned her some meat in the past as well. And I'm okay with that, because at the end of the day, what I'm doing is that I am trusting her morals, her decision making, her background. And if it is that, okay, this is the person that I'm choosing. I understand she feels comfortable explaining and giving me all her history, her facts, right, so to speak. Then I'll be like, all right, cool, let's do this. You know what going on. [00:48:31] Speaker B: And that's that material, bro. That's a real big man thing there. That's why he's take man with a big shoulder and big heart to be like that. Because ego's woman, too. Woman, too. [00:48:46] Speaker A: These conversations, guys, thank you so much for once again sharing these conversations. The show may end, but the conversation always continues. And it's something that we'll continue to converse about in manhood, continue to be open, to express, to share opinions. For the purposes of the show, it's not necessarily our position, but it's for the purposes of discussion on the show here at manhood, to reach the audience and to meet you where you're at and to hopefully touch on some topics or thoughts that might be going through your head. The closing takeaway would be honesty is the best policy. Morals is what we're about. And that honesty can come from, you know where you stand, you know where your feelings are growing or growing to honesty within your relationship. I'm not about the fact whether it's your wife, you don't have to necessarily be married. It's whether you're in a relationship and that commitment is based on a specific understanding. And what that understanding is, is where your honesty then comes in to be able to divulge and for you to be honest, even with that particular person. So God is the boss. Everybody else is just pretending. I'd like to thank our sponsors, Jameson and racetrack. Really? Really. Thank you, gents. Johanse. Jay. Niall. Always a pleasure. [00:50:10] Speaker B: Yes, ma'am. [00:50:13] Speaker A: Can women have guy friends? Can men have guy friends? Can men have women friends? Can women have female friends? Friends are friends. Honesty is the best policy. Thank you so much.