Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: You.
[00:00:05] Speaker B: So thank you for joining us for yet another conversation about manhood. And remember, we are not speaking on behalf of all men. We are a few men. Speaking to all men, and by the definition of man is not bravado. And that you like sports and that you're a particular manly man. It's simply that you have values that we want to shine and be bright and be men, to be recognized as men. So my panel today, the guys I know everybody's really excited about today's topic, and I have a definition that I always like to start off with. But let me do the introductions. Johansey Iodk, behavior change consultant, Val Mickey Ramlagan, radio personality, a good friend, and Niall McNish himself, media personality director of social. I mean, there's a whole gamut of things that Niall is, and he's particularly excited about talking about today's topic. Today's topic is as much as we are starting off in a very buoyant and a mood of smiles, it's a very serious one, a topic that tends to lead to all sorts of violence, death, heartbreak. Why do men cheat?
Why do people cheat? So let me start off with the definition that I found.
But before I start off, the definition would be really good to recognize our brothers racetrack for sponsoring this set, of course, and a sponsorship of manhood as well as Jameson keeping us healthy. So thank you, Jameson and Raystrack. Definition when women cheat, there's usually an element of romance, intimacy, connection or love.
Men, on the other hand, are more likely to cheat to satisfy sexual urges with fewer thoughts of intimacy. No surprises there, of course, many men cheat because they feel love as well as sexual attraction for an outside partner. But more don't. For them, infidelity can be an opportunistic, primarily sexual action that in their minds does not affect their primary relationship.
In fact, when asked, many such men will report that they are very happy in their primary relationship, that they love their significant other, that their sex life is great, and that despite their cheating, they have no intention of ending their primary relationship.
So we're discussing why do men cheat? But we're also going to be discussing, why do women cheat? Why do we cheat? And I wouldn't say that we've all done it, but I'm sure sitting down here in some form or fashion and we'll find out the definition because we speak specifically in this context about physical. But as we're seeing now with the advent of social media, it's across a broader spectrum. But I read the definition. Thoughts?
[00:03:21] Speaker A: Well, firstly, you were speaking about the research that was done, right. And we know all women and all men in the world wasn't interviewed. Right? So it's from a correctment of people based on culture, et cetera. So I set in that premise first.
[00:03:37] Speaker B: Very important to know that when we talk about surveys, it could be six people in 1000, if you're lucky. So I just want to present that.
[00:03:46] Speaker A: Right. So I will go from the information, pulling from actual conversations with people. So we're going on our general first, why people cheat most times, in terms of the responses I've gotten, is that they are missing something from the relationship.
[00:04:03] Speaker C: Okay?
[00:04:04] Speaker A: Right. So even if it is expressed physically in terms of sex, right. Sometimes it's because of excitement. So sexy bring the excitement. Sometimes sex bring intimacy.
Sometimes sex bring a feeling of being cared for. Sometimes sex is even an outlet to vent that maybe they didn't have. Sometimes even sex brings the variety because maybe the person they're with have a certain format that they only want things a certain way. Right.
[00:04:34] Speaker B: Dead fish.
[00:04:37] Speaker A: Sex brings that. So I given one angle because there are a few other reasons, but I'll give one angle. First of, they're missing something from the relationship and explore that.
[00:04:48] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:04:48] Speaker B: So there's a lot guys that I want to cover in this particular episode, this conversation. One, of course, we've recognized is across both genders, male and female. Sex is a big part of it, right? Sex is. And sex is really where a man, where you really hit the ego. Because let's face it, a woman cheats on a man, and all you're thinking is how daman did it.
You haven't even gone down to the part or you haven't even reached the area of why the woman cheated.
What is going through your mind at that point is what happened. And you want. But you do want details.
[00:05:27] Speaker C: One question. The first thing is men ask is, was he bigger than me?
That's like the big thing that, did you have an orgasm with him?
But to go back to what you're saying about sex, I feel like everything in the world is about sex except sex. Sex is about power, right? A lot of time. What I realize, especially for men and the reason why men cheat is that they start to feel powerless in their actual relationship. Even if a woman could be the most doting wife or the most caring person in their life, something that she might be doing, not giving him that feeling of, I am a man anymore now. And usually, if you notice, most men date or cheat down while most women cheat up. And what I mean by that is that most men will always. Most men will cheat below their status in life.
It will never be somebody sweeter than a girl.
[00:06:29] Speaker B: So a woman not cheating for no $200 date, basically, you know, that risk.
[00:06:35] Speaker C: A relationship for that. But a man just might.
[00:06:38] Speaker D: But if she accustomed to $150 date, she might.
If I had to put in my two cent, I would say we're talking about humans on the whole. But men, we cheat because we can.
That's why I see it. Everything leads up to that one factor. There's a sense of mortality.
[00:06:58] Speaker A: We feel.
[00:06:59] Speaker D: We know time is of the essence. So even if we happy, we real happy with somebody. But you go to a party like with the boys, and we real drinking, and you gal wink any corner, and all of a sudden, you get more second winks. Next, her friend comes, I want your phone number.
It's not even just validation, but it's because we can.
And that is, we have to separate that reality from narcissism, right? Because it applies to both men and women.
[00:07:24] Speaker B: But when you say we can, Val, let's do a deeper dive into that when you say we can, because women can.
[00:07:31] Speaker D: Okay, I suppose usually walk over to cross the highway, but I can cross the actual highway, run across.
There's no matter right or wrong anymore. And because you're pressing with time, as a mortal individual, with time is of the essence, again, you could be real happy. And then the whole concept of cheating. So we may have to divide it, because the preconceived notion of cheating a long time was sex. But now some people feel a worse horn when they find somebody else to confide in and they're talking about you with them. You understand? So it have different levels.
[00:08:06] Speaker B: This is what we started off by saying that, no, it's more, as you said, before the advent of social media, it was physical, but now there's cheating with regards to the first time. It's from the time someone sends you a message and you're looking for. We have this, like, culture. You want to get as many likes, and a man or a woman sends you, or it depends. Because a woman could send a woman and a man to a man was actually another study that I will talk about later.
You get that, like. And then you send. Or they might send you a message looking good, or a smiley face, and then you respond, and then you feel good about it. The next thing you know, there's a private message. From the time you engage in a thought. Based on this study and based on just having a discussion, I'm sure we could relate to our own feelings. That's cheating. You're now confiding or you're open to exploring something further. People say, well, it's just window shopping. And as long as I don't go in and purchase anything, that's okay. No. From the time the thought is there, it is now considered a form of cheating. You opened it and it's just a matter of time and place. And the predator at that point. Men are predators, women are predators. We're not differentiating here. Even though we talk about why men cheat, we just thought of all kind of moving all around.
[00:09:31] Speaker C: But can we settle? Has everyone here cheated before at cards?
[00:09:37] Speaker D: What are we talking about?
[00:09:40] Speaker C: Yes, I have.
[00:09:41] Speaker B: I have cheated and I've been cheated on as well.
I can say that the feeling of being cheated on, which is another discussion that I was looking at, I think it was Steve Harvey. And they say men cheat, but women do it better. By far, they know how to do it better. And a lot of times I don't know if they have a better way of cheating or they're smart at it. I think what it is, is men are so caught up in ego that you think to yourself, that can happen to me.
They wouldn't cheat on me because you think that you are the boss. And when it happens, it hits you such a gut punch that sometimes you can't breathe. So you might have done it 20 times, but our woman do it one time.
[00:10:35] Speaker C: But I actually think that woman, it's not that they could do it better is that women have more respect for their men than men have for women while cheating.
[00:10:43] Speaker B: But what I'm saying to you is.
[00:10:44] Speaker C: That'S why they don't get caught.
[00:10:46] Speaker B: It's not a matter of they're better men.
[00:10:49] Speaker D: I think that's the opposite.
[00:10:51] Speaker B: You're not opening up the conversation.
[00:10:53] Speaker A: The conversation, Nile said something, Val said something. So I'm going to go around because I don't want to miss.
Right. So we're coming back to respect every woman, respect the men more while cheating. So before Nalia said that sex is about power, right. And I disagree with you because everybody have a different reason why they have sex, right? And they have a different reason on a different day. So Monday you have sex with your girlfriend or your wife for a specific reason. Tuesday could be something different. And I'm using it in that sense because if we just go to human behavior is taught feeling action, whoever going on here towards creator feeling and create action, and that may be something different at a different time. So even when he is talking about Steve Harvey making his blanket statements about men, but his blanket statement about women. I disagree with even thinking most men, because again, it's very situational and I'm glad we're talking about it. So, yes, we could form some kind of precedence, but we're still very situational. Because even when you're saying to cross the highway, right. It's different reasons. Sometimes it could be because of time, sometimes it could be because of inefficiency. Sometimes it could be because of excitement.
[00:12:00] Speaker D: Correct.
[00:12:00] Speaker A: It could be a different reason why you want to run across the highway versus take it. So we go in with situational. So sometimes it's about power. So agreeing with your dear. Okay. Right. Val, what you are seeing before losing some of these points, right?
Yes or no. And I wanted to address that because some men who was telling me, well, it was in front of me, take it, right.
That a lot of times the stem of that and which this is our main point in, say 70%, maybe 80% of men that I spoke to that I know that cheated is because of low self esteem. And let me explain now, right, because if you say, but once it's in front of me, I will take it, I'll then ask how you rate yourself. And most men either nine out of ten, some men says a 20 out of ten. So say, then why? Then you'll go to a woman who's a two out of ten if it's just presented in front of you. And most times it's because of low self esteem and or coming from scarcity, meaning that I can't get no more. I have my wife, I have my girlfriend, and maybe I can't get no more. So wherever I get in, are taking it. And I put in that up front because that low self esteem is one of the major factors. Then somebody said about respect that women respect their men more. I disagree. Now, again, I speak to all the women in the world.
[00:13:26] Speaker B: I know you're not on service, right?
[00:13:28] Speaker A: But the women that have told me that they cheated, right. Most time that respect is not necessary for their men, but for themselves. And I'll never explain because they don't want to look bad publicly because now I'll go with a study. Study shows that women care more about their reputation, right. On a whole, how they look to people. Actually, maybe it's humans and all that because men are, we are ego. So let me not pinpoint women on, but I'm using it here. A lot of times they do it slicker because they don't want to look bad to society more than a man. A man might feel bad because he don't want people to know that he was cheated on because that would bruise his ego. Not that he cheated. Right. But a woman don't want people to see them as being loose or whatever it may be, the terms in the derogatory terms. So it's not necessarily that respect for the husband or the man, but that they don't want to look bad in the eyes of the public.
[00:14:18] Speaker C: Well, the eyes of the public that's seen when horn is happening. So we're talking about her reflection of what she tried.
[00:14:24] Speaker B: Well, it depends where the horn take place.
[00:14:26] Speaker C: Well, agreed. But I would hope that nobody doing it out in the open and just wild.
[00:14:32] Speaker B: Sometimes a tape could come out.
[00:14:37] Speaker C: That is just wireless to begin with. That's supposed to be happening. But point is, the effort that I've seen that women take to ensure that they don't get caught, right.
Has always come from a point where this man can't take this. If it is he find out about it, he cannot take it.
[00:14:59] Speaker A: Why call that respect? Versus it could be fear.
[00:15:03] Speaker B: I agree.
[00:15:03] Speaker C: But fear still has form of respect. At the end of the day, you could fail leaders, you still have manners.
[00:15:11] Speaker B: But you're not necessarily saying that you fear that he can't take it, because there are those that you say, listen, if he finds out, he may get violent. But there's also just that you don't want to break their heart.
[00:15:23] Speaker D: Well, because they care about the person prior to the cheating. This is two people in a relationship. We don't know how long. But what I want to add to it, too, is like, we could all agree and we could spend years along here talking about why people cheat. But why I mentioned because we can is because there will be contributing factors that leads up to the action of cheating, but because we can. That's why we do it. I can't speak again. I like surveys, but I don't put too much into it because surveys are very finicky. Because it could be a different country, different culture, different demographic, a different age. I mean, it's all different current factors. But your primal instinct from a man. All right, so let me say you're happy in a relationship, you're real happy. But subconsciously, primal instinct wise, we always seek in foot of the ideal meat.
We seek and to have the ideal meat that has gotten lost.
[00:16:15] Speaker B: I thought you said meat there. I was like, okay, that has gotten lost over time.
[00:16:20] Speaker D: Because making sure we want different reasons for relationship or we believe different reasons relationship, but regard to you have a woman, she have your children, Oliver in the house to get everything nice. But what would make you want to go? Yes, I haven't good sex. Sex, sex. I mean, as a number one contributing factor for most men. I took their bread and like, boy, don't get married. If you don't want to have sex, don't get married. Thank God for one bird. Yeah, right. But if you haven't beyond that and much better than that, and you still go to a club or you go or you travel to do a seminar somewhere to the country. So you know there's no way her, her friends, nobody could know. But you still find yourself in your position.
Not that we can't stop the opportunity coming, right. But to act on it now, let's do the level we go in.
[00:17:06] Speaker B: Now.
[00:17:09] Speaker D: To me as a man, I think it would boil along to what you're saying about self worth. Yes, there's a sense of validation, but we also.
But immortality. I talk about as we get older, most men, as they get older, whether they want to be in a relationship or not, in their 50s or 60s, we still want to know we still attractive to the other sex. Yes, you still have game, we still have some kind of something. We could go to the beach and this with our wife or girlfriend. But once he knows going to look, we're good with that. But then to go beyond that now, like I said, many different reasons. It could be a cultural thing. Seeing your father, the house you grew up in, there was no respect. So you don't have to follow back.
[00:17:49] Speaker B: On, well, your value system. So are you being a man so kind of like what Johansson mentioned about?
There is validity in the argument that cheating may be connected to a sense of, or multiple partners may be a contributing factor, insecurity. Because in doing that, you need that validation. And if you're confident within yourself, then two things would happen. One, you would need that validation. And two, if you found that your partner wasn't giving you what you require, you'd simply walk away or say something. Or say something.
[00:18:26] Speaker A: I found this more with men than women. Again, I speak to all men and all men, but more men, we tend to be afraid to see what we want and to see exactly what we have a problem with and what we want in a relationship, sexually or otherwise. And because of that, again, that comes from low self esteem. Because you don't believe in what you want is valid right down to, hey, I don't like the eyelashes. Right, but you ain't say nothing, it turn you off and then it turn you off enough time. You turn off from her and then you meet a woman or who do all the eyelashes.
[00:18:56] Speaker B: Correct.
[00:18:57] Speaker A: If you understand what I'm saying, instead of just saying I don't like this, or I like this, the person, your female counterparts, you have to acquiesce to your needs, right? And they could end up leaving you, but sometimes, well, afraid to leave me. If I say this again, we're going back down to the word of it. If you're able to see exactly what you want and this person giving you, say person, okay, they listen to your needs and they're giving you, let's say, 90% of what you want or to the point where that you're satisfied, then you don't really need it. You don't need anything else. Even if a real nice woman come, even if you're away in Alaska, nobody will ever know anything. If you are satisfied, then you value yourself and your relationship, which comes back to self esteem, then you wouldn't. So I'm putting it that way to explore the reasons. Because none of us perfect, all of us could end up as men, even men, listening to these scenario where we feel something.
[00:19:53] Speaker B: So that's a real good part in this conversation, to take a small break. Because on the other side of that, which we'll be talking about when we come back from the break, is what happens if your partner just simply asexual or simply not physically attracted to you again, but there's still some sort of love there. But we'll debate that, have that discussion.
So thank you for staying with us at manhood. This conversation is starting to heat up. We're speaking about why do men cheat and why do women cheat? Why do people cheat? And we've sort of brought it into men cheat primarily because of insecurity.
And women cheat, I think, because sometimes they tune out or they themselves. There's no reason why a woman doesn't have an, why she cannot move from a place of ego herself. You find that we paint it with a broad brush to say that men cheat because they can and out of physical attraction, but women cheat out from an emotional place. Again, that's a survey. That's a broad brush. I don't think so. Both parties, you feel attractive. There's something lacking in your relationship.
You just built that way. There are many things because as I was telling you guys at the break, I'm going to share with you now.
I have heard in a documentary that I was doing based on domestic violence when you go into communities, women actually tell you, if they don't beat me, they don't love me, right? And therefore part of that is what they receive as love might be some sort of act of violence.
There are many different areas where people may feel certain types of emotion, and one of that could be the fact that, and then, of course, you have what triggers the man, because when they now go with the partner or they go with someone else, they will then express to them why they went with this particular man, which then sends a man.
Volcano eruption. Violence ensues because you either want to kill that man, you want to kill the woman, or you beat them. And so I wouldn't say simple as saying, when I was cheated on, it broke my heart, but it broke my ego first because I was in shock. Like what this person, how I would have never seen it coming. And I wouldn't say the irony. The irony was with that particular person, I had never cheated on, okay? Right. In the past, I had cheated. So maybe it's karma. In the past I cheated, but with that particular person, even though they thought I did, I actually never did because I was trying to be a better person, trying to be a better person. And I was hook, line and sinker. But it happened. And when it happened, like I said, the ego was the first thing that was hit asking, not the questions that you would think most men would ask, but it was more the why, because I felt I'd given everything.
The second thing would have been, of course, in heartbreak because you realize, okay, can I move past this? And so I'm saying that we really have to look at, there's no broad brush. That's basically what I'm saying. Because as I talk in here, emotions kind of building up again, and you're kind of going back to that space. And.
[00:23:47] Speaker A: I'm not going to ask you a question. This might have been a therapy question, right.
[00:23:51] Speaker B: But I realize that.
[00:23:55] Speaker A: I'm not sure if to ask it because we have enough time. I think we have your napkins, right?
[00:24:01] Speaker B: No, put me at the target. Let's ask a general question.
[00:24:08] Speaker A: Because you're saying ego hit, right? We could make a general statement when.
[00:24:13] Speaker B: Use me as an example.
[00:24:14] Speaker A: It's for the betterment that a woman cheats on him. Ego is hit. And I would ask the same question as what we were saying before in terms of why you get hit first, because that means we had some kind of insecurity there from before. Okay? Right. So going back to that, being secure in yourself and relationship, because I could tell you an example, two examples actually I've had of clients who told me that they were cheated on. One man actually came in the house and found them in his mind. Now he was angry, right? And he was hurt.
And he said he felt secure that he did everything he could to the relationship.
And he felt he did everything in himself. And he said he almost certain because of course he had to have a conversation after to find out why. But he was almost certain is nothing that he was lacking, right? And how we reacted to it might sound a little strange, but he opened the door and he just say, calmly pack your bag, et cetera, et cetera. The man get frightened. He said, brother, I not vexed at you. You must be doing your thing, right?
[00:25:21] Speaker B: Simply I understand why you did it.
[00:25:23] Speaker A: He was calm about it. And then I think he left and he saved. He expect her to leave, et cetera, et cetera. He made wait outside. And when he told me that I was like, I don't even know if I have that in me, right, for most men.
And he came because he was hurting to get over the hood. But I didn't feel any sense of insecurity. And he said, you know what? That if he could do this for one woman, he could do this for the next woman. He said he can't predict what will happen. But he was secure in himself. So I'm going in that because I started questioning am I that secure in myself? And the answer was no, right?
And at that moment I thought about what do I need to do to reach a level of security? Now again, I'm not saying a level of security would mean that you wouldn't feel hurt, you wouldn't even roll in the ground and cry about it.
[00:26:13] Speaker D: But you believe you will be able to deal with it any best proper.
[00:26:16] Speaker A: Way dealing with it.
[00:26:18] Speaker B: You said something there that I want to touch on because in the asking why do men cheat and why do women cheat? Is also the signs to know whether somebody cheats. And when you said there about you don't know emotionally whether as you speak about caring or not. One of the things that they show is a woman. One of these telltale signs is when someone is emotionally now disconnected, when your partner finds out if they are very apathetic at that point. And it's just like, well, and some people put it down to survivorability. They're putting their walls up. Is mortic than that. They say, the old people say there's more, any mortar, any pestle. And what you may find, I'm not saying again in all cases, this is, again, just a study where it shows that certain things are removed if they become a lot more secretive. If you find that you're getting sex more, get this. Sex more or less is also a determining factor because more could be out of guilt. Right. And less means they're getting satisfied somewhere else. Right. So one of the other factors was the fact that the emotion is no longer there. So they're not asking you, how was your day? What's happening with you? And if you do communicate, again, it's very apathetic, it's very surface level. And all these are some signs of the fact that it's not necessary. I don't want people out there to go on witness.
And then accusations started.
[00:27:57] Speaker A: All of a sudden.
[00:27:58] Speaker C: You started jab me more today. No. Something wrong. Right.
[00:28:01] Speaker A: But what Robert saying is incongruent, right. When you're in a relationship, you must know the energy of, if you're invested in the relationship. Let me go. If you're emotionally present in relationship, you must know when there's incongruent something.
More sex, less sex. More of this, less of this. The person moving different. You always know there's no way.
[00:28:21] Speaker D: Kiss and stop kissing on the lip.
[00:28:22] Speaker A: Stop.
[00:28:23] Speaker D: That's always a telltale side. Telltale side. But some of you touch on earlier about not be able to express, like just a simple comment about, well, I don't really like the eyelashes and all.
A lot of men don't have the know how to communicate. Now when we do go out now, we find somebody who seems able to read us better than our partner. So it's no longer us being able to communicate, but they know how to reach us communication wise. That's also a way to cheat. Now this topic is, it has to go more beyond because there's cheating, there's having enough fear, and there are different reasons for those levels. Right. So what I think is as far as the cheating goes, and this will be what your studies do with your qualifications, health and mental wellness and aging. As we get older, everybody, we want different things from something as simple as testosterone levels. Drop it in a manner. You just don't care for sex no more with your wife.
[00:29:18] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:29:19] Speaker D: Right. But you will go and emotionally cheat with another woman out there or exchange numbers all the chatting all the time.
[00:29:24] Speaker B: Or you might find those testosterone levels with someone else who gives you that vibe or that feeling reenergizes you.
[00:29:33] Speaker D: Yeah. And a lot of women who, as they get older, they're now finding themselves, a lot of women give up so much to support their family, their mate, whatever the case. And now they're going back to school, they're going to further in a job, they want to travel. So a lot of things. And it's just because of, again, men and women inability to communicate that things have changed as an individual.
[00:29:54] Speaker C: I like that.
[00:29:55] Speaker D: Again, cheating is always a cop out.
[00:29:57] Speaker B: Too, as you mentioned that, ironically, that was the reason I was given when I was cheated on it.
[00:30:03] Speaker D: You were working too much.
[00:30:04] Speaker B: It was apart from working, I was hardly ever around. I'm always working. But also, they needed to find themselves.
They were still looking for themselves. So, I mean, whether it's a cop alternative happened. I can't stand by and go, oh, I had nothing to do with. Because again, people cheat. People cheat. But the persons cheated on must also, in certain cases, accept some sort of responsibility.
What were you doing to contribute to that? Nobody's saying that they're not responsible for their own behaviors and what they've done, but in hindsight, you must introspect and say, okay, well, did I deny them? So, for example, if it's on the woman's side and the woman says, listen, I'm just not on sex anymore, right. I've reached that point. I'm asexual. And you continue to show that.
[00:30:57] Speaker A: You.
[00:30:57] Speaker B: Might be a high performer. You may want it, but you don't want to go out. You may express, listen, I really don't want to go out there. But you're constantly deny, deny, deny. And your boys might be talking about, I don't know, whatever they may talk about.
[00:31:08] Speaker D: No algorithm says there's responsibility, but there's also reality where it's not a matter of responsibility anymore. Responsibility on your part. You got into a partnership with somebody, but the reality is sometimes it's completely out of your children, because if you're going to be cheated on, you're going to be cheated on. Like I give example, you're working, you're career driven, right? But you were unaware, all right, yes. That you were not physically home there with her, whatnot. But at the same time, it was always, okay, again, people cheat because they can. This is what, I'll go back to what I said. So if you really think all the factors, we could sit down and talk about what will make somebody cheat, but it's the step to commit the action is because we can in the most basic sense.
[00:31:53] Speaker B: That's another good point to take a quick break on, to regroup. A lot to take in there. A lot to take in there on manhood. And we always say the conversation doesn't end here. The conversation must continue.
[00:32:07] Speaker A: Correct.
[00:32:08] Speaker B: This episode must come to an end, but the conversation doesn't. True. Take a quick break.
So we had to take a break.
I wish we could start to film some of the behind the scenes, any conversations that we have when we go to break something that we'll certainly look to going forward with other episodes, because so much was discussed in that short space of time. Like, can women really have guy friends?
No, that's a whole other episode we just seen. What we kind of briefly spoke about. Just like how you mentioned a quick break is sometimes why women go looking for their partners. That may sink in or it may not. Might have a double untaunted. It does.
There are many, many other conversations with regards to why do men cheat? Why do women cheat? Like you said, could women have guy friends? When the woman says, I want to go to my girls, and you're dressed in a certain way, and you come home late at night and all smelled up and all the rest of it, you ask yourself the why in that? And sometimes they say, well, it's for me. I want to go out and I want to feel good. It's like, well, okay, well, I know making feel good. The other thing is this proverbial shoulder to cry on, the man who's already predators by be your own brethren. We spoke about on the very first episode about being better as brothers and about manhood and about a woman going. And you ask yourself, what does that man have apart from maybe physical presence? What does that man have that you are either lacking or stopped? And that is where I want us to sort of bring this particular episode to a close in terms of having that discussion, to really leave people listening to this, apart from some of the.
Whether they experience it, whether they'd be looking at a checklist, what are you doing to either encourage it or what are you doing that you feel that you need to cheat or you have cheated and leave them with some sort of. That's what you're here for. Leave them with something. I don't know, some kind of, well, don't do it. Don't do it.
[00:34:26] Speaker C: Let me talk from a point of me being the outside man, right? Which I've been quite recently, actually. And what I realize is that especially in relationships, went back to communication. No one has really say the real things that they want, especially with their wife.
As we age, our taste might change, right? And a lot of the times we fear that the taste change.
I can't say to my wife of 1015 years. Let me try.
She might be repulsed at that and you might feel ashamed that you see.
[00:35:13] Speaker A: I know I cutting you off. Yeah, go ahead. What I was saying before was thank.
[00:35:17] Speaker B: You for cutting more because where he was going to go with that.
[00:35:24] Speaker A: Being honest and being with your self esteem to say what it is. And this is even we go in male, female, why in relationship. And you talk about communication before quickly. I had a couple that came in for couples counseling, right? And they were having serious issues. Well, they said serious issues, miscommunications, et cetera. So I told them, make a list. Put honestly what you want from this person. Honestly what you want from this person. You have five minutes and do it right. The first thing, the guy was like, you know what he wanted up, want a job every day. And he was afraid to tell his wife that because she would think, well, that is all he wants. After he said it, the wife started cracking up, laughing, laughing, hysterical on the ground. And I was like, what happened? And she said, you know, I was thinking the same thing. Why didn't just talk? And that always was significant to me because a lot of times even I remember a man coming for Tobanka, right? He come in tobacco.
[00:36:18] Speaker B: Before you go to that point, just let us just know that that is an anomaly that you could tell your wife or significant other. I want this especially every day as valid mentioned early on about having one birthday a year, because that's a woman.
[00:36:35] Speaker C: Common misconception.
[00:36:39] Speaker A: Okay, right.
[00:36:41] Speaker B: Studies have shown, studies have shown.
[00:36:44] Speaker A: So I was saying the guy came in the banker, right? And after maybe halfway through the session, I realized it was a tibanka for the outside woman, right? And this man was literally in the ground crying, right? And I was like, in my mind, but is the outside woman. And then he was explaining all these things that she gave to him that he was missing from wife. But then I was like, well, so your wife didn't want to do it. And then mostly he's like, well, I didn't tell anything, but they didn't tell anything. I was like, why? Because he was afraid of XYZ, how should you react, et cetera. And I could even relate to that. I remember in one of my relationship where I cheated and it was because I didn't see what I want. And the other girl, she, somebody said anticipate. But even then, somehow I felt more comfortable. This person say, well, I like this, I do like this, I want this. Well, we had this now, but I didn't. And I was afraid or maybe even wondering how the person react. If I said that and if she.
[00:37:39] Speaker B: Says she can't give you what you've asked for, what's your predicament at that point?
[00:37:44] Speaker A: Then I'd have to decide there's love. Then I know. Then I decide if I could spend the rest of my life without this.
[00:37:50] Speaker C: Fair enough, right?
[00:37:51] Speaker A: If I can't.
[00:37:52] Speaker C: A lot of the times, though, some things that we may want, we might want to do to our wives. I feel like I might want to do some things. Even though I could ask her and she may be receptive, I still don't want to do to her. Because I feel like I want my wife to be my child mother. Right? And I do want to do some vile, despicable.
[00:38:17] Speaker D: You know, which couples cannot look at porn together because that's when your real dark side comes up, what you like.
[00:38:24] Speaker B: And then you might ask a question. That's what you wanted.
[00:38:28] Speaker A: I might be song a little utopian. Because to be honest, this is something that even with my wife that we promise each other that we'd be honest even the dark side of things. Because if you hide in a dark side means you're still holding something away from somebody.
[00:38:44] Speaker B: Okay?
[00:38:45] Speaker A: And if I'm able in myself to face that dark side, right. That's a big step in the esteem who you're talking about. And then if she's able, and we could discuss it. Because Anagola utopian, that's what I think a relationship should be. We talk about communication. Because if you had attend you, you're supposed to bring it out. True. The Bible say, and some people is misconstrued. And you could argue with me, the marriage bed is undefiled. And it says that for a reason. Because if you sharing with that person, if two become one, you're not perfect. You have some nastiness in you, right? And then we could even explore the why I like it upside down. Because. And that is a wonderful sharing moment. You and your wife say, I like it this way because you understand. And if you're secure in yourself, right? And this is what I think a couple should be to be secure with each other right now, you could discover something you do like and that's something that's in danger of it. And that's where we stay away from it.
[00:39:40] Speaker B: That's it. Because in that, and I purposely cut in there johansson to say that the fear could also be with that insecurity, with that insecurities that she may share that dark side with you or vice versa. And then your question then might be. So that's why you did any past coming in there. That's what I'm talking about. Now, when women is like the question when a man asks a woman, how many men have you been with? And women will always say that, or men will say that, whatever number she tell you, multiply that by seven or ten or whatever.
There's that darkness to anything. But also the question of if, because you could show her a dark side and vice versa, she can then say, because there's nothing like a male or female. Both can be jealous. And you may say something that she may not be open to, but she's jealousy, father. You may have had those experiences, be it a threesome, be it doing it a certain way, whatever the case may be. But again, this conversation, this type of conversation doesn't end. We will continue it in discussions with manhood, but definitely on this particular episode, of course, we must come to a close at some point. And I just want your thoughts on have we accepted horning as part of our culture? We see it any music, we see it. Any conversation. People laugh and joke about it, as long as it doesn't really impact them. Or it's something may have happened years and years ago and you could have moved past when you said to me about napkins, I've moved past that.
And so have we accepted horning as part of our culture. And what are some of your closing? I wouldn't even say thoughts, messages, maybe to persons that you don't leave them open to go and start accusing the other partner. Because there's one thing that I say, and this is going to be my closing, apart from wrapping up the fan car sponsors that a therapist, when you do couples therapy. I don't believe in couples therapy. I'm just putting it out there because you have a conversation, you open up and then therapist goes, okay, 45 minutes up and your wounds open and you're now left to your own vice.
[00:41:54] Speaker A: Never come by me then, if you.
[00:41:55] Speaker B: See, well, just talking in general, I'm not talking about my specific.
[00:42:00] Speaker C: Well, to answer the question is, I have accepted it. I think that cheating is just a part of life. I think that forever is a very long time, and they must have some sort of. I understand the weaknesses that both parties may have.
[00:42:16] Speaker A: Right.
[00:42:16] Speaker C: So for me, cheating is not a big deal. The woman that I'm looking for is that if she does cheat one, she cheats on me, respectfully.
She cheats on me with.
[00:42:27] Speaker B: Is that an oxymoron, though? Cheat on you respectfully?
[00:42:30] Speaker D: I mean, you want to follow me for your partners.
[00:42:37] Speaker B: Are you speaking more of an open relationship or cheating? Because if she's cheating or if you are okay with it, then she's not cheating.
[00:42:44] Speaker C: I feel that me not knowing about it is cheating.
[00:42:47] Speaker D: Well, ignorance is blessed, right?
[00:42:48] Speaker C: If it is that you're doing it for, you understand why you did it. You're not just being wild.
You're taking my feelings into consideration. You're taking my health into consideration. You're taking my secrets into consideration, and you're making adult decisions because some people just do it all to wildness. And that is where, again, is the choice of woman that I'm choosing.
[00:43:15] Speaker D: I'll agree with you.
[00:43:16] Speaker C: I not can't get set out every pool.
[00:43:18] Speaker D: As we get older, the dynamic will have to change. I'll just quickly say this. I don't accept as a cultural thing, I don't accept honors. A thing will happen to you. Every individual, every situation, every relationship is special and different under different circumstances because you could cheat out a revenge, because you get cheated on. There's cheating, there's cheated and there's having an affair. There's different levels of what will bring all this together, right. And make people propel you to go this way and then also to justify narcissists or not. So I just believe that once as we get older, we understand what is required of forming a union with somebody else. You want to grow old with somebody. This is not a teenager or somebody in their 20 silicon data. And only time will tell. Some breakups may have to happen, of course, you may find a perfect person and then there's self sabotage because you believe not a matter of insecurities there, but you just do believe this won't last forever and I'll go back to the mortality. So before I die, she might lose interest in me. Maybe I have it well, good now, but let me just. And I'll just end up quickly. Human beings, this is how it is going back to the very primal sense we need to feel desired, we need to feel attractive. We don't have to be told we're attractive, but we need to have some sense of before what time has gone that we're still, like I said, desired by the opposite sex. If that's the cases, and then that opens the door, that opens the pandora's box, then any little ability to follow through. And it depends on one's character too. So it is no defining thing, but it is what it is.
[00:44:47] Speaker B: You want to take it away.
[00:44:49] Speaker A: What I'm going to say is easier said than done, right? The fact that one. Yes, I think we as a culture accept horny. That doesn't mean it's right. The fact that we use the word cheating means that if we go in, by our dictionary definition, we violate in our rule in an illegal manner.
[00:45:07] Speaker C: Fair enough, right?
[00:45:08] Speaker A: So going back to that truth again, this is easier said than done, because I myself not perfect at it. But if we saying that we wit someone, it's best we open ourselves to them. It may take some time, it may take some help, but let a person know exactly what's going on. Even if it means, you know what? At this stage, we really can't satisfy each other anymore. Instead of going through cheating. Because cheating brings heartache and some where is the person cheating cheated on the outside man, the outside woman. It creates all these dynamics, especially in the society. Because you could go in a whole show about the ill effects of outside children, right? So I could go there. But what I would say is going back to that honesty part of it. If you do like the person anymore, and many times we're not being true to ourselves. If you break up with the person. But now, after you break up, you're going to the gym. Now you know you're supposed to be going to the gym. Anyone taking care of yourself all of a sudden you go and study when she leave, knowing you do the renovations on your house. If you understand what I'm saying, we're not being true to ourselves.
[00:46:06] Speaker B: Why you weren't doing all of that beforehand?
[00:46:08] Speaker A: Exactly. So I would leave with.
If you have to reach point of cheating means it's something illegal doing to the relationship. If you and a person have understanding, cool. And are going back to us men and we're talking about this is man and us men.
Let's say we're not responsible for women behavior and how they think. But at least what we could do is be honest with our partners. Say, darling, I don't like this. I like this, I want more of this. Do wear this. Wear this with love. Okay? Right. With love.
Aim is not to hurt, but you being honest and you laying it out. Because if we esteem ourselves enough to say, you know what? I am Johanse. I am Val. These are my standards.
You compare to anybody else, but these are my standards, baby. This is what I like. And I don't like you have the opportunity to take it or leave it. So I do have to now go.
[00:46:58] Speaker B: Outside and look for something great convo as always, guys. This is one of those things taking. There's not much more to be said in terms of me to wrap up this particular episode. This is something that, again, we keep saying the conversation doesn't end. We will continue having this conversation, many other areas of the conversation. And what I have understood is, once again, to the people who ask all the time, like, what do we define as a man? Well, what you heard here today gives you some of those answers, your value system, and also to both males and females, don't wait until afterwards, or till it's happened or till you moved on to make that change. Make that change. If that change is a positive change, that would impact the fact that in a positive way, your relationship to avoid the cheating in the first place, then do it while you can. And as Val had mentioned, our primal needs come down to two things. To be loved and to know that you are enough. Once again, Johanse, Val, Niall, Robert, thank you so much for looking at this episode of manhood. Why do people cheat? I hope we've answered some of the questions. I hope we've had some really some eye opening insight into that particular topic. We'd like to really thank our sponsors. Once again, racetrack and Jameson. Until the next one.
