Episode Transcript
[00:00:05] Speaker A: Thank you for once again joining us for manhood. This is the season finale, but as we've said over time, that the conversation never ends. Maybe the episode may end, maybe this season. Well, the season does end, but the conversation continues. And don't worry, we'll continue to have these conversations. But we need to take a break. We need to regroup. We need to hear from a lot of the young men, women, older men and older women, of course, to ensure that what we bring, even though it's very conversational and as jovial, many times when some jokes are cracked, it's a very serious topic because at the end, what we want to achieve is to be better as brothers.
[00:00:44] Speaker B: Correct?
[00:00:45] Speaker A: Today's topic, a bit off topic in certain ways. Men are from Mars, women are from Venus. We've heard it so many times. And at the end of it all, a lot of it comes down to triggers. And you hear women a lot of times know men are their shit. And what I'm trying to get across today, and hopefully in a sort of synopsis, a culmination of nuggets that we have discussed over the period of this season, is that if we continue to think the same way and do the same thing over and over and over again, then that's the definition of insanity. We need to make the change. And if someone's at 80, then you can't be at 30 or 40 or 50. You can only be at 20 as a max because there's only 100%. So I'm appealing to all those that are listening and hearing that. Let's try to make the change. Let the change begin with us.
And that's the only way that we're going to be better as brothers, better as partners, better in a relationship, better as humans, because we're not dolphins, we're not horses. We can only be better within ourselves as humans. There's only a male and female. And therefore, if we aren't batting for one another, then who?
So, once again, it's a pleasure. Johansei Iodk, behavior change consultant, a good friend, Jesse Ramdeo, senior producer, produced, senior reporter, reporter, producer, producer. And of course, Niall McNish, producer, actor, tooth creator.
There's a couple of things inside it. So really excited to have all know within this conversation today. So season finale, guys.
[00:02:34] Speaker C: Season finale.
[00:02:35] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:02:36] Speaker A: You know, a lot of nuggets, johansson have come across this table over a period of time.
[00:02:42] Speaker B: That is true.
Men are from Mars, women are from Venus. Right. I've heard that since I was a child. I haven't read the book right. Right. Now, a group of us men, we have the audiobook, so we kind of just kind of listen in things so we could understand. And one of the guys thus far who almost completed, he was sharing some of this stuff.
[00:03:03] Speaker C: Right.
[00:03:04] Speaker B: And his goal. His goal, because I've once heard a quote that says, don't try to understand women. Just accept who they are.
Right. So don't try to understand woman. Because, you know, you always hear men trying to understand women. They have some jokes where it makes a little. This is the book to understand woman. When you open it is a blank.
[00:03:27] Speaker D: Right before, as a meme actually, as well.
[00:03:31] Speaker B: But he was saying, don't try to understand them. Just accept who they are.
[00:03:37] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:03:37] Speaker B: Right. And I'll go even a little deeper because all women are not the same.
[00:03:40] Speaker C: Correct.
[00:03:41] Speaker B: So the woman in your life, the woman you interacting with, accept who they are. Sometimes you may not have to like it, saying like it all the time, but accept who they are.
[00:03:51] Speaker A: Any thoughts even on that? Just to say that, even as you said, just accept who they are. We ask the same. We ask that women also accept who men are. And I'm not just talking about men into everyone's individual in their own, but even in that individuality. Right. You are still the same to someone because that's not unique. So even I might specifically like this, as crazy as it might be, I'm almost guaranteed there are hundreds of thousands of others that I haven't probably met as yet that feel the same way.
[00:04:26] Speaker B: True.
[00:04:27] Speaker A: So we're not reinventing the wheel here. So it's a case of both. It comes down to mutual respect and understanding.
They need behaviors.
What makes you a man? So whether we come back.
[00:04:41] Speaker B: Blueprint.
[00:04:42] Speaker A: The blueprint. So whether it comes back down to men are hunters, women are nurturers, and you take it from there. That's what we're asking for, that respect of that. And not try to understand that, but to accept it, we don't have to understand.
[00:04:57] Speaker C: I think, dearly, is the beauty of it accepting the fabric of a woman, what constitutes a woman, and whether that woman is a partner, a relative, not looking necessarily all the time for the negatives or the faults or the flaws, but accepting them as they are.
To me, that is the beauty in it. And it took me a long time to accept that and to realize that, and I'll dial into a point and I'll share my relationship with my wife.
Took me a real long time to accept certain things right throughout the journey.
[00:05:42] Speaker B: Like what?
[00:05:44] Speaker C: Perhaps one.
As an individual, I tend to be very independent. I tend to be things like being a clean freak, stuff like that. Now, coming into a relationship, sharing a home and that kind of thing, realizing that I'm sharing a space with someone, certain things that I am accustomed with is no longer that mold has been broken. Right. Having to know in my mind, I was like, gosh, why you can't get certain things right. Why things can't be done as it to me. But then I realized, Jesse, it makes more sense if you accept certain things, change what you can as an individual. Right. And perhaps let that individual learn from that as well. To me, I'm not here to control.
I strongly believe that we struggle as men with a power dynamic.
[00:06:33] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:06:34] Speaker C: You see that power dynamic, roots of it. Yeah, boy, that power dynamic and two working people, that is a recipe for disaster right there. There are so many things coming out of that.
[00:06:46] Speaker A: But like you said, two become one and one become two in a scenario of marriage. And it's a matter of when you go to that sort of depth, it's compromised.
[00:06:57] Speaker C: Correct.
[00:06:57] Speaker A: And understanding.
[00:07:00] Speaker B: Two becomes one and one becomes two.
[00:07:02] Speaker A: Become one because it's one household.
One becomes two and one then becomes two. Because in his case, for example, he was an individual at that particular point, an independent. And now it's two persons in that it's, it's in depth that, okay. Over a period of time, you'd either rise or become so, you know, and that's a really solid point, Jess. But, you know, we come back to the fact that it is a power dynamic. And men are men.
There are certain things that we can change, and there's certain things that, as we keep coming back to that are innate. But even as a man, we're also different. And we keep saying it. Many a time, opinions are like, everybody has one. And therefore, someone's opinion of somebody or someone's thoughts on someone is varied, whether it be male or female. So even though a woman might like something with a man or particular men that she may be involved with. Right. Doesn't mean that that's all men. It's just her interaction and what those men are being and whether they're becoming.
I saw something yesterday.
Man boys or manchild. You're being a man child, which is a topic I love to discuss in detail at one point.
And it depends whether she's accepting of that or in that space that a man child turns on and she wants to be that manchild or gives her levels of feeling younger and they're doing certain things and wild and he's adventurous. And you hear all these things whether you want a grown man, as some.
[00:08:52] Speaker B: Say, well, that acceptance comes with twofold because women first, even without a woman, we have to accept ourselves, right? I don't like to say have to because I don't tell people what they have to do, but we should accept who we are at whatever stage we are. Even if I'm a 40 year old man and people think I should be way ahead in terms of maturity or wherever it is. But if I'm not there yet, accepting yourself first, because if you don't accept yourself, that means you're not facing the truth, correct. If you're not facing the truth, then you can't do anything about it.
[00:09:27] Speaker C: You're totally ignorant.
[00:09:29] Speaker A: The person with you also needs to do that. It's either, okay, this is how they are. I need to accept this. I need to accept what they're doing. And don't go into something thinking you're going to change.
[00:09:39] Speaker C: It also took me a long time to acknowledge, recognize and accept things about me that I just didn't want to winner. I am a man. I have absolutely no patience, right? And I saw that more. I saw that the most when I got married. I couldn't believe I lacked that amount of patience, right? And when I got into that relationship and I became, when I was married, even during the process, things would happen and triggering me, triggering my, testing my patience. And I'd be like, but Jesse, in the media you're supposed to have the most patience or everybody, that kind of thing. Trying to convince myself that, hey, you wrong. I write until I step back, look at it holistically and realize, Jesse, you're wrong, buddy. You know, there are things that you need to, like you said, you should accept. You should be willing to identify. I should say there are things you should identify, recognize, acknowledge and accept. Because I think it bodes welfare development as an individual. If you could not be ignorant to things that auger welfare growth and development. Now as an individual, at 33, trying to work on my patients level, trying to be better, trying to be a bit more understanding, I think you're preparing me for what is to come, which for me the next step is fatherhood. Right.
Being objective about things, being honest with yourself is really also very critical.
[00:11:15] Speaker D: That's the hardest part.
[00:11:16] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:11:16] Speaker D: That's the part that most people, they stumble on. And I was numbered to ask what is an exercise, practical exercise that anybody could do, but especially men, to analyze themselves. Because a lot of the time we get caught up in our egos a lot. And as was literally because I don't want to blame women as well. But everybody tends to be blind to the perception of the other person, right? So notice just me. And I want to be in a moment where angry. But in the back of my mind I know that I wrong. I know that there but change that I could do. And what is being said to me has some credibility in an argument. And I just choose in just to fight a little bit longer because I don't want to lose because of the ego. What is the exercise I could do in a moment? Or what can I say to bring myself back to reality and really be able to release that?
[00:12:15] Speaker A: You know what.
[00:12:18] Speaker D: I was wrong.
[00:12:19] Speaker A: Well, I like to come old time saying something wrong and strong and that's where it comes from.
You pick your battle, but then in picking your battle, you could win the battle, but you could lose the war. And a lot of times, as I've said on other conversations that we've had with manhood, is that part of it you have to look at you are not the problem. Your partner isn't the problem. The problem is the problem.
[00:12:47] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:12:47] Speaker A: And it's us identifying that. And once you could be mature enough, people use things like safe words, but in the heat of the moment, I challenge anybody to tell me that those safe words or those things that you put in, whatever that may be, work each and every time. It doesn't because there'll be a point that you'd be like, f that safe word. I want to make this particular point. And 90% of the time you'd realize it has nothing to do with that particular issue. It's a lot of pent up other stuff that brings you to that point.
[00:13:20] Speaker B: All right, so let me answer, Niall. And then you. And then you'll come in, Jesse, when you're asking what is a technique that you could do now, what I'm going to say, impractical. The first thing I thought about is get married. Right? Let me tell you why I say that and then I'll give you something practical.
I realize, and it's me personally, without being married, I didn't see the full picture of myself, right. Being single, I know what I like, what I could do, even reach a certain level of success, right? And I cool, I good.
But when our wife came into my life, even though I didn't like certain things because I didn't want to see certain parts of myself, and then I couldn't, and I say couldn't as an important part, I couldn't see parts for myself.
So having a wife and whether you want to call it a good wife or bad wife or not having a wife or somebody looking at you from a different perspective help a lot, right? So that's the long answer. That's not the short answer. The short answer of it is what helped me is doing researching it, because there's something. I mean, in the field, there's something called the Jahari window. I don't know if you all ever heard about that.
[00:14:34] Speaker D: Jahari.
[00:14:35] Speaker B: Jahari window.
Well, just think about a classic window. Square, and then with the cross in the middle. So you have four segments, right. And the basic is how you see yourself, how others see you. Then there are parts of you that you don't see that others will see, and then there's the unknown. I think I get that correct. And when I learn about Jihari window, I always keep that in mind. So there's a way I see myself, which is me, but, of course, could be blinded by ego, could be blinded by triggers, trauma, upbringing, all kind of things. Then it have what people see, and sometimes what people see. Sometimes what I want them to see, but also what they see in is also based on their own lenses.
[00:15:22] Speaker D: Okay?
[00:15:22] Speaker B: Right. And then there's a part where people see in things that I am not seeing, and then we go in the unknown. The unknown is that we call it extraneous variables, things I might see, things I mightn't see, et cetera. So we have all of that in play. So, when I do something, and let's say somebody reacts in a way that I may not want, or I surprise why he behaves or why she.
I no longer come from the place that was something wrong with them. Right now, something could be wrong with them, too, but I consider now all the options. So what did I do?
[00:15:54] Speaker A: Objective. What do you mean that something's wrong with them? I'm just saying that's objective.
[00:15:59] Speaker B: So the objective, as you see, more objective is looking at. Okay, I did what I did. I know my intent, but, of course, my actions could translate different to my intent and then not necessarily something wrong with me or them. So I'll go in with your premise. It's not something wrong with. Not the problem with you or me, but the problem is the problem. So, looking at it from that point of view is not that something wrong with me, something wrong with who, but that there's a mistranslation, there's a miscommunication somewhere there, and then. Let me talk.
[00:16:29] Speaker A: So we had to go to a quick break, and I like that. Because a lot of times the part I'm agreeing with is that a lot of times you can't see the picture inside the frame. Right. You need to step out, of course, and appreciate it. But I'm not agreeing with the fact that you have to get married as a result, because marriage comes with its own problems and we don't want to send people down.
There could be a wifey, not necessarily a wife. So we take a quick break.
[00:17:15] Speaker B: Welcome back to manhood. This is the season finale. Not the last conversation, but at least the last one for this season, right? Not the final conversation. We were discussing. Men are from Mars, women are from Venus. We hear that a million times. And we delving into it today. And when we left the came, we were talking about marriage and importance of marriage. And I was making a little joke with Niall saying that you need to get married to understand the full gamut to yourself. And this was a joke, right. But of course, I'm not discrediting it either, because marriage helps you even, let me say, rob, point of view, a long term relationship, long term committed relationship, you will see yourself, right. If you with yourself, you can't see yourself. It's like you can't see your own nose, you can't see your own forehead, you can't see your own face unless you look in a mirror. And the mirror sometimes is your partner, right? And I was going to share a personal story, but I know you had something burning. Now, people, when we only break, we'd.
[00:18:18] Speaker C: Be still jumping on the topic of marriage and what it constitutes to me. To me at city three and growing up, you've always heard the narrative, fall in love. I've never believed in that. Because in falling in love, you could fall out of love. I believe in growing in love. That is just me. I know that is subjective, but for me, and I experienced it. I experienced falling in love. And man falling out of love is equally as easy. But growing in love and growing to love somebody is a whole different ballgame. And to me, that is what allows for, to me, is a contributing factor in the success of a marriage. In that as much as you're growing as in a marriage, you're also growing as an individual. Right. And I often have this concept, zero expectations lead to zero disappointment. And I cannot afford to be disappointed again. I feel like grappling with so many different things. Disappointment is probably one of the last things I could deal with in this world.
So I do have expectations. I have objectives, right? I try to meet objectives. If I don't meet them, work harder to meet them eventually, right?
I don't expect that I'll have the most successful marriage in the universe, but I have objectives that will hopefully make me have a very successful marriage. Right? And for me, as a young person, little concepts like that, what I've unearthed through my own experiences, and I believe experience is really here.
Your own individual experience. It's not going to be the same for everybody. And I couldn't be any clearer on this point that everyone's experience is going to be different. It has worked for me thus far.
[00:20:20] Speaker D: Do you mind if I just jump on something? Right. You say that you may not have the most successful marriage, but based on the institution as you know it now, a successful marriage means one of you all die. And that's a successful marriage. Till death do us path means that marriage was successful.
[00:20:40] Speaker B: You write a word if you go by wooden as interesting till one of.
[00:20:43] Speaker D: You all successful marriage. And then when you say that you don't have any expectations, this is what I really wanted to challenge is I feel that one we as men should not shy away from disappointment, because I think that limits us a lot.
Expectations create standards, and standards is what make us do better, at least in my interpretation.
A lot of people, we tend to want to just say whatever happens. That way. I could run away from the fact of that ugly feeling, because no one wants to feel disappointed, ever, especially in a partner. But here's this opportunity to hold someone accountable, say, hey, this is what I expected from you, and this is standard. I would appreciate. And if you don't meet that standard, here's an opportunity. Yes, I'm disappointed, but here's an opportunity for us to work on it together.
[00:21:38] Speaker C: Right?
[00:21:39] Speaker D: And I'm okay with making you feel maybe a little bit uncomfortable because no one wants to disappoint someone else either. But that's where actual growth is. It's always any pain. You're german. You will only get pain again if it hurts. And we have to stop shying away from it.
[00:21:58] Speaker A: Okay, so I'm going to kind of ramble here a bit just to address some competition first. Just, I really appreciate the honesty.
That takes a lot to speak about. Maybe a past relationship, especially when you need present. And the fact that this is national tv to really commit. Because what we're trying to do here is be real and meet people where they are, and shying away from the conversation or hiding and trying to be perfect, or doesn't resolve anything. It doesn't get the message out. We're not reaching people where they are.
[00:22:38] Speaker C: These delusions of grandeur that society.
[00:22:43] Speaker A: So I just wanted to present the fact that I appreciate your honesty with regards to that. And when you use the word fall on anything, to fall, yes, there's a positive spin on that. To say it's about getting back up, but to say to fall in love means you trip almost like.
There's almost like a negative spin on that. I like the whole idea of growing in love and focusing on that and really putting a commitment to achieving that. It's very similar to, I think, a conversation that we had, or maybe it was a behind the scenes where we've had guests and people have written in and commented where they talk about sexless marriages or sexless relationships, or they're frustrated on either and who may have a lower libido or who may ever had a higher libido. And then it comes down to men, and they shit, or men. All men think about is with their penises, et cetera, et cetera. And in some research, a woman told me, she said, what you focus on, I like to say that what you focus on is what you see. And why is it that couples or in any relationship, that you are not saying, okay, you know what? This is my goal. Let's agree that this is where we want to get to. Like I was discussing with you, Johan, say, about marriage and the fact that you need to go into marriage with a clear understanding, almost like a contract, to say, okay, let's discuss bills. Let's discuss our sexual relationship expectations. Now, granted, you change as time goes on, which is why I don't believe in the whole till death do us part and all that. It should simply be, I will always give you my truth, because we change as people. And I'm saying that going forward with that thought process is that if you know that you want x amount and you can sit down and agree on it, say, listen, can we agree on three times a week? And you might say, but that takes a sort of.
But what it does is it gives you a commitment, and not only gives you a commitment, but also shows that you're not an option at that point, that we both value each other, and the intent. Intention is there, and also you can look forward to it. It's like eight days Wednesday. Boy. Hey, fellas. You know, I mean, I can't sweat.
[00:24:57] Speaker C: Today, but I can't sweat today.
[00:25:05] Speaker A: That is very, very important. And so I wanted to presence that, but I also wanted a presence of Khalil Gibran.
Most of you may have read the book the prophet. And they speak about when I said about one becoming two, two becoming one, where it's not about people saying, that's my better half or two halves together becoming whole. It's a matter of two wholes coming together and making the experience better and not so that you are still your individual. You still have what you need to have, which is why people sometimes have. I think I heard Steve Harvey say about having four accounts. You have one account that's set up when the money comes in for bills, right? You have one account that's set up for what the man wants, what the woman wants. So that's three accounts. And then you have an account for vacation and all the rest of it. So that ramble comes to a close with saying that.
One thing that a good friend of ours, gola, told me, and it really was impactful for me, is what makes having, not necessarily in a marriage, but having a long term partner is that person is your witness to your life, and that's what you get. So someone who you could turn to and say, hey, remember when so and so, or remember when this happened? Or they get to know you get to understand what you like, and that brings you a certain element of peace.
[00:26:37] Speaker B: So I'm grateful for your ramble. And I was using all my strength to remember what they say with your ramble. But actually, this wasn't a ramble. This was a very good nugget that you gave us as a big nugget, but it was still a nugget.
[00:26:51] Speaker A: Right.
[00:26:51] Speaker B: All right.
[00:26:52] Speaker A: That's why we'll get paid. Big box.
[00:26:55] Speaker B: So coming to Jesse, I'm also going to echo Robert's sentiment about being honest, because even in the other conversations we had in manhood, we understand one of the major tenets of being a man is being honest. Being honest and being able to face your own self. And then adding into what Niall was saying about the disappointment, we as men, we do shy away from disappointment a lot. Right. And doing some research on that, I realized that we weren't trained for disappointment. Right. So again, I'm not blaming. I'm going through the thought process because nowhere we could do something different. So it's not about blaming or being a victim, but we won't train for disappointment. Right.
And because you won't train for disappointment, we're not sure how to accept it. So now we understand in that we could put things in place. And then you said about not having expectations, and then sometimes it translates into, well, anything goes. And a lot of us men like say, trini, men say, well, not anything. No, anything. And the truth is we actually take anything. And that's not good at all. And we had discussed it before.
It's good to have standards, right? It's good to have a framework. Because just taking anything, that means if use a ten out of ten, if you rate yourself high, that means you go take a two out of ten, you go take a three out of ten, and that's not a standard. And then going into marriage, and I was sitting here thinking how grateful I am for this. Because if I had this before, and if we men in general, if we had this before, we would do a lot of things differently. Because I was married before, right? So I went through a divorce, and now I'm married again. And many things that I know now, if I knew, things would be a lot differently. So even what you're saying about these standards and setting up and having a conversation before, I didn't know about that. And the men before me, they didn't really tell any truth. Everything is kind of laugh and a joke, wherever it is.
[00:28:52] Speaker A: Love on butterfly, right?
[00:28:53] Speaker B: But understanding it, no. And then I even went through understanding that on the second time that love is not a feeling. Because I thought it was a feeling. And the truth is the feeling came and it went. It came and it went, it came and it went. And I remember there's a movie I was watching. I don't know if you'll ever look at the movie. The prestige, right?
[00:29:12] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:29:12] Speaker B: And there's a moment when he would tell his wife, I love you. And then she would say, you mean it today. And then some days I know you do mean it. And I used to relate to that because before, some days I felt it and some days I didn't. And I always thought, is that right? Is that wrong? But now, with knowledge, right, with a little green mobile, I understand marriage, the institution of marriage. I want to tell my institution.
Institution is not based on emotion.
It's based on our intent. Two people come together now, love will be there. The butterflies. I do believe in butterflies.
[00:29:48] Speaker A: Love you. And see, when you say that, because normally saying. I hear, I don't always like you, but I love you. But if you're saying that, you're actually saying, I don't love you today, even though it's certainly not unconditional love, that's something you rarely have for a partner. It's normally what you have for your children. But is it that today I don't love you, but I'm tolerating you then.
[00:30:10] Speaker B: No, what I was saying before is that was my incorrect assumption and perception of love. What I understand love to be now is a choice. Every day is a choice to love the person. No, let me even go. D. Every second is a choice to love the person. So you could say that that is a choice. So you choose to get married, you choose to have a life together, right? Some days I do like you, but I choose to love you. There's a meme where it's an older couple and rain falling, and he vexed the umbrella, so he vexed with her, but he's still sheltering her, and he taking the rain, so that there's a choice. He likes she know, but he love her any moment. And that now every day is a choice. So therefore, if you understand from that concept, marriage changes. Because I'm not tolerating if I tolerate in you, because some days you will reach a threshold and then you wouldn't want no part of this. But if you and that person decide on a standard and a goal and a mission and a legacy, because that's what I learned. Now, creating legacy, which is not an emotional thing. If you and that person create that, then sometimes when you think about it, that vexation moment mean nothing.
All of them things trivial hunting. No.
[00:31:26] Speaker A: So what you're doing there, Johansso, is we need to take a break. What you're doing is you're giving Niall some context and a response to what he was asking. Because when you have that moment of you want to come and you want to win the argument, a lot of times, you know you're right. They always say women are always right, and a happy wife, happy life. But what it comes down to is what is important to you. So being right about something that subjective, like, okay, so you see it and what's left. So you see it and you may have hurt her or embarrassed her. And what's really important at a point that you stand up there and go.
[00:32:18] Speaker C: I think as men, we really are afraid of being emasculated. In losing our conversation. We think we are being stripped off from manhood, our dignity, anything that makes us a man. No, nothing is wrong. And being emasculated is not the end of the world.
And you don't need to interpret everything. And again, I use, you would interpret very loosely here, but you don't need to interpret everything as being emasculated. Look at it from a different perspective. Look at it as you could learn something from this experience. It's not you being emasculated or she's poking fun at you or using the opportunity to say, yeah, I beat you today. It's not like that.
[00:33:01] Speaker A: You took the higher road.
[00:33:02] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:33:03] Speaker A: And the higher road at the end, what could happen? You might get some later.
As a result of that, you realize that who really wins here? And it's not about winning. Okay? So like I said, you leave somebody hood. Therefore, who really wins? And isn't the objective of life really to go into an area, a room, an environment, or meet someone and leave it better than you found it? Isn't that ultimately what you should strive to have? So why am I going to want to tear someone down? I feel broken inside when I realize I've hurt somebody or I've embarrassed them, or they come back and say, I don't like how you spoke to me there, even though at that point, am I very resolute, am I very stood and stoic inside? I'm like, wow, that's how you showed up. You showed up in your smallness. And that's not how I want to be. But we need to take a break. So good comfort.
[00:33:57] Speaker B: Yeah, man.
[00:34:10] Speaker C: Welcome back to manhood. We've been having such an amazing conversation. I wish this could have been a longer conversation. I wish I could have been part of it from the beginning.
And the conversation has been centered around man is from Mars woman, they're from Venus. Right. But let's dial back to the initial topic and why we're here. The whole issue of the power dynamic and that topic. Rob, what's the takeaway here? What do you want the takeaway to be?
[00:34:40] Speaker A: Yeah.
What I would like is certainly the whole premise. The reason for manhood is to be better as brothers. So in order to be better as brothers, I want us to also take from men are from Mars, women are from Venus, that we can coexist. That's the beauty of know. Our managing editor here at Guardian Media would always say, if two people always agree, one is unnecessary and it's the same thing. If we're always doing the same thing in certain things, it's great you have a partner, you have that witness doing the same things, and you can enjoy things together, but it's okay for someone to come along for the ride but not necessarily enjoy the journey. And there's also instances where two people can do things on their own so that they can have conversation and that you can always have a dynamic and you can exist, you can coexist. And so it's to understand that, yes, men may be from Mars and women may be from Venus. But guess what? We are perfect. If we start to go down the depths of Kamasutra and things like that. That's what brings the beauty to it. So what I want to get out of it is that it's okay. We need to stop saying, for example, men and just say, hey, that statement.
Because when a woman says men and what you're doing is you're discrediting and discounting what is in it. It's not a choice to specifically say, okay, well, as you suggest, for example, patience, you can work on that. If you are a particular way, you can work on certain things, but there are certain things that make a man a man, and there are certain things that make a woman a woman. And we need to, instead of come down on it, we need to appreciate it, love and embrace it, and respect the fact that part of my attraction to the woman in the first place is also some of these things as part of a character, part of a character.
[00:36:45] Speaker D: Not to defend the management statement, right. However, I believe that a lot of the times, the complaint that women would have is that, as you just rightfully said, there are characteristics that a man has. But I feel that when men don't fall within those characteristics is where I feel the management is coming to play. When men don't be providers or be protectors when they step out.
[00:37:14] Speaker A: In this case, what I'm talking about when I have the be in my bonnet about it, and men, and I fully embrace your point that if it's coming from that point of insecurity, low self esteem, macho bravado, all of these things that could be men in their shit. And it's something that you have to deal with in your smallness and in your space.
[00:37:34] Speaker B: Okay?
[00:37:34] Speaker A: Right. I'm talking about men in this with regards to a man, like man being a man, give an example.
Men are egos, men are logical thinkers, right? For the most part, women are more emotional, like we spoke about in a previous episode, with the whole agreeability, right? Women are more predisposed to that, pure, because innately they're nurturers. And we can't take that away from what makes a female a female. And which is why you find even in love languages, that males love languages. They want to be touched. They want to feel touched, touched, physical. But again, we could come down to the premise of all humans, all mankind, is to be love and to be loved and to know that you are enough. Right.
[00:38:26] Speaker B: But I get a point about that, and I agree with you, because in the last conversation, I was saying I don't really like the term the battle of the sexes. Now understand it in fun and ingest, right? But when we battle in nobody winning.
[00:38:41] Speaker C: There'S a connotation to that and it.
[00:38:43] Speaker A: Should be a battle.
[00:38:44] Speaker C: No, what is in battle. Yeah, that could not violence war. I mean, you could apply different meanings to it, but it doesn't need to be like that. It's unnecessary.
[00:38:59] Speaker A: But just to answer your question, with regards to a specific example, in that specificity I'm speaking about men are hunters. So if you're talking about the whole thing about wanting to provide, wanting to protect, those characteristics are innately within a male, right? And so I'm not talking about men and their shit when they're not doing these things. I'm talking about when they fall into the status quo. The understanding of this is what is a quintessential male person.
[00:39:38] Speaker D: Well, again, and I totally understand that, but as you say, men are hunters. But what if a man is a predator still hunting, right? Still in the space of I'm a hunter, but now he is now in a space where he is now being a predator to a weaker sex.
[00:39:58] Speaker A: And then that's men in their shit. So that's not any category I'm facing it. I'm talking about just being a male in the positive light of what men are from Mars. That what that character.
[00:40:11] Speaker B: Let me see if I can give a specific example. Because notice, Robert, not giving a specific example. A specific example is most men are problem solvers, right? So if a woman come to you to a problem, what are you thinking about already? The solution. But many times women don't want that. They want somebody to vent to. So an innate thing of a man being a man being a problem solver, especially if it's a woman you love. If a woman you love coming to what you're thinking about already. I don't want to see her in distress.
I want to solve the problem. But she may not want the problem solved. I given that as a good example, between Mars and Venus we want to solve. They want to vent neither one right or wrong. Because venting really important. And she need to vent a gate out to even be open and susceptible to the solution.
[00:40:54] Speaker C: Correct?
[00:40:55] Speaker B: Right. But if a woman berate a man, all you want to do is solve the problem. Then that could be a woman berating a man for being a man. Or if I say all you want to do is vent, that could mean me berating a woman for being a woman. So understanding different. Because what I like, not a battery sex, but I call it a dancer sex, right? With a dance, it is a different thing. So she come and she vent, right? And you dance in with it. And then she get all the feelings, and then you present the problem.
Then we present the solution. And then now the dance complete. And now we both leave happy. So really, and that is the point. Understanding and is not better or worse is really the compliment. And that's what it is. A woman is supposed to compliment a man. A man is supposed to compliment a woman. And how we reach in there, I think first the base is what we talk about is being truthful with yourself. Because even understanding as a man who you are as a man, that the same thing I just said. We men want a problem solve, understanding that first real important, so that you could even be able to manage it.
Knowledge is power. So therefore, the more you understand and know about yourself, correct. The more power you have to manage yourself. And, pun intended, manage yourself. So then, you know, in any power, knowing that I like to be logical all the time, but then I could manage it. Because in this instance, I don't need to be logical yet, right? In this instance, I'm a man. I know I'm more powerful physically, right? But because I know that I could manage that in certain situations, I, as a man, know, let's say there's a power dynamic because I'm a man. But now, because I understand it and I accept it and I know it has truth, I could be able to manage it better. So therefore, I could be more responsible with everything that constitutes me as a man. Not perfect. I ain't saying perfect, but we understand where it comes from. So now with the woman from Venus, we could understand how to do it. And I would say, ladies, you all too. You all had to understand what constitutes yourself as being a woman and understand it. So then you could manage it. So now we could have the dance, right? Wherever dance, even with our wine, right? We could both do the dance as best as we could.
[00:43:20] Speaker A: Not perfect.
[00:43:21] Speaker B: Best as we could.
[00:43:22] Speaker A: Okay, we've come to our moment. It's the season finale. And of course, this particular conversation needs to end.
And I want to take it away to kind of segue and use men and to really put it down to as men, we know we are, and we need to acknowledge that. And it's not a case of women. Women are doing this, and women and triggers and things like that. Men are.
And we want to acknowledge that and say, we need to be better as brothers. And I want us to give our closing thoughts, some of the takeaways from the other episode, some of the conversations or just personal experiences as to how do we be better as brothers and what are we individually going to do to not only try to get across to the persons we come in contact with or persons who are listening to this program, but to really going to make an effort within ourselves because the change must start within. We can't be expecting what we ourselves are not willing to try to achieve at the very least. And this is where fall comes in. We can fall many times. It's about getting back up our takeaway thoughts guys, better as brothers.
[00:44:49] Speaker D: I think it will all start with what a lot of times happen is that men don't hold other fellows accountable when they own.
We would give up Bridgina bonks. When you hone your wife and I find us out of time and I get it, you want to do things out of line, but if you make a commitment and you say yo, this is what I got to do and I come to your wedding, I'm not trying to see you hone your wife, dog. I'm not trying to see it. Don't do it in front of me. So your girl however, anyway. But point is that it have moments where as a man you could really hold your bread and yo heddy scene. That's not cool. You know that he's going to tote on it because fellas don't want to hear next man talking to them in a certain way. But I feel that if it is your risk, your friendship, and you really go out and say yohidisine, this is what I think you could be doing better. This is what I am disappointed in you in and I feel that this is a change that you should make. I think that as a whole, as men we would be in a better.
[00:46:03] Speaker C: Space and piggybacking off of what he said in holding others accountable, do not be afraid to be held accountable yourself. You understand too many times. Again, we tend to feel emasculated. We tend to feel threatened or attacked. When someone points out our bullshit, when someone calls us out on our bullshit, we go on defense one time, no, make the world of excuses. It's okay to accept that you're wrong, fix it right?
But in the whole discussion, and I don't know exactly what would have transparent throughout all the conversations, but one thing that is helping me and I would suggest that brothers and other men out there consider is have a level of spirituality in your life that plays a huge role in shaping you, your character.
And that spirituality also helps hold you accountable. You understand? And that's where I'd leave it.
[00:47:09] Speaker B: Okay, adding to my brothers, because you all made valid points. And I'll say the point is that each man brings something different to the table. So I would say to all our men, find where your strengths are and stay within that strength so that when we come together, you are the expert at this. You are the expert at this. I'm an expert at this. So when we are together, we are really better as brothers. And what I would take from this is, one, the importance of men meeting, the importance of men sitting and having intentional, healthy conversations. That's one big thing.
Also taking responsibility for who you are. We're not responsible for our childhood, right? But we reach a stage in our lives, men that we already know what trauma we went through, what we mother didn't do, what we father didn't do, what happened to us. And I'm not discrediting trauma itself because some of us had a rough childhood, right. And a rougher childhood than others. But you reach a point where you need to take responsibility for yourself as a man.
Let's say, forget you don't have a wife yet, you don't have a child yet, et cetera. Take responsibility for yourself as a man and do as much as you could to be better. And if you can't do it alone, which most times, we can't do it alone or no, lean. Lean on somebody. Lean on your brother. Lean on your friend. Go to a professional. Read some books. All of the above, actually do as much as you can to add the spirituality to it. Be grounded in something correct. Do as many things as you can to be better.
[00:48:55] Speaker A: A lot to ponder there. This is the season finale. Again. The conversation doesn't end the episode. The season may end, but that conversation still continues. And we'll continue doing that research and having these conversations. Keep continuing to reach out to us, comment, send us your thoughts to bring it into context. Men are from Mars. Women are from Venus. It's about time the planets align. That's what's important.
And in that alignment, as we are better as brothers. What I would want is for myself, is show me your friends, and I'll tell you who you are. So if my friends, I can't tell my friends what I really think and that I'm not for that and I'm against certain behaviors, or I'm for that, or for certain behaviors in certain ways, then you know what? You need to part company. I love you, but I love you from a distance.
There have been many important nuggets along the way. It's up on YouTube. Check it out on CNC three. And you can see the playlist there for manhood. A lot of real good topics that we've discussed. Mansplaining, toxic masculinity, masculine energy. And what you might find is initially, some of these topics are very feminine topics, as in topics that connect to men versus men and women, men versus women. But it's not about men versus women.
[00:50:19] Speaker B: Female oriented, feminine.
[00:50:21] Speaker A: What we're trying to achieve here is a conversation, and it's how we all show up. But men are, men are, and we need to address that. We need to be better as brothers.
And that's the only way that we are going to truly have break cycles. Need to break cycles. If you continue to do the same things and if something's not working for you, be it in a relationship or in a brotherhood, remove yourself.
That hood might be the hood for you, and it's where you want to go. So, Johanse, always a pleasure. Jess, thanks for joining. Thanks for having me, Niall. And to touch on what Jesse said, spirituality is really important. So always remember, God is the boss and everybody else is pretending. So here next week, close.
