Music and it's influence

[00:00:00] Speaker A: You. [00:00:03] Speaker B: So this is yet another episode, rather conversation of manhood. Today's topic is a really, really important one. One where we just discuss how does music affect generations? So from my generation, generations in the past to our generation now, how is that music impacting the way we go about doing things and our, our safety, more importantly? And how are men and boys being affected? So I have a really great cast with us today. Johansia, behavior change consultant, KG, music producer and blaze, media personality, and myself, Robert. I just want to just pay some attention to our really swanky set today. Really cool vibes. [00:00:51] Speaker C: This is what it's made of. Racetrack, thanks so much. We love this. It's very comfortable. I feel like I am in the seat of my Ferrari just downstairs. It gives you the Ferrari feel. [00:01:07] Speaker A: You. [00:01:07] Speaker C: Know what I mean? So well done. To, to. I want to take it from you immediately, Robert, because this, what we're going to discuss is an age old argument. This is age old. This is from my time when I used to play in parties in the 2000s with cell construction. And it had radioactive. And I have all these different things and used to say, well, look at the kind of music. All they're playing, all they're doing song killing. This is an age old argument. And now it has returned for the next generation. [00:01:40] Speaker B: I just wanted to open with your definition, because I always like to make sure that we have some sort of definition to presence the conversation. So the definition that I would have seen with regards to the music. And it shows that studies have shown that music has the ability to influence mood, emotions, and even physical actions. For example, listening to upbeat, energetic music can increase feelings of happiness and motivation. And may encourage a person to be more active and productive. On the other hand, listening to slow, mellow music can promote relaxation and calmness. And may help to reduce stress and anxiety. Additionally, the lyrics of a song can also have an impact on a person's behavior, particularly if they contain messages related to social norms, values and beliefs. For instance, songs that promote violence, drug use or other harmful behaviors may encourage listeners to engage in those activities. So overall, music can have a powerful effect on our emotions and behavior. And it's important to be mindful of the type of music we listen to and how it may be influencing us, which is the topic of today. And specifically, we're not listening to slow music. We're not listening to love music. We're talking about music that's inciting violence. And how do we deal with that? Let's have the discussion. As KG, I know we've had these discussions a couple times where the discussion might have been around. Well, you listen to music, as Blaze said initially, you've listened to music like that in your past. But what I would say to that is that music back then would have been about killing a song. As Blaze mentioned, it was always dance. All artists, you have your song system, and who could play a particular song or a performance that will kill that. So it was never about. When we hear things, know whether be ninja man, beanie man, and you hear things like test my song, killer song, miss sound at the number one. All those are references to the music and not to kill in someone directly. And is it then that, because what we hear is that's what that community knows, that environment, that music is part and parcel of that message. That's the sort of dialogue I'd really like to have here today. It's not coming down on any one person. It's a matter just trying to have that understanding. [00:04:20] Speaker A: I mean, my point of view, as Blaze said, this is a conversation that we've been having for generations. My point of view on the whole, violent music, I mean, it's a broad conversation. We could go deeper and deeper, deeper into it. But I always look at it as the music is a reflection of society, not society is a reflection of the music. That is my only argument when it comes to this. We cannot blame the artists for the crime, the artists singing about what they already know. So, like, for instance, I'm a quote unquote Trinibad producer. You know, people will know me for producing a lot of Trinibad music. Trinibad is only six years old. Trinidad been this country since I was six years old. So how can we blame the music for what is going on in the country? And we very well know it's been happening. It's a systematic problem, it's not a musical problem. That is how I will look at it. [00:05:23] Speaker D: That's interesting what you say, because I was thinking about, as you saying, music imitates society. So let's say art imitates life. And I was thinking, does life imitate art? And that's kind of the argument. Like the chicken and the egg, which one. [00:05:40] Speaker A: Which one comes first? [00:05:42] Speaker D: Right? And we may not ever get that exact answer. So I think it's really understanding what influence music really has on society, because we know for sure, let's go with research. But even personally, all of us has been influenced by some sort of music, right? From a child, even a teenager. When we hear a song, most times, if it's a song that resonates with us. We could complete the lyrics even if we don't actively say it with our mouth. It's in our brain. And then we know music instills some sort of emotion. So you feel good, sometimes you feel angry, you feel something. So once there's. And human behavior is thought into feeling, into action, and once we get that connection, it develops and creates a paradigm. And if you have it enough times, it will create a habit or behavior. So we know for sure. We know for sure whether it is research or even personal that it affects. So therefore, no, we have to figure out if it's the responsibility, because I hear that often it's responsibility of the artists to say things that write, quote unquote, or whoever decides right for society, or which is sometimes my experience of life. I want to sing about that. I want to express that whether it is a grimy way, is a happy way, is whatever it is. So is us discussing who responsibility, quote unquote, this, and even us as men, how we are, our role as men in terms of the music and society. [00:07:20] Speaker C: I hear in this. I have been in the middle of this from ever since, because people say, well, you know, blaze always, y'all are nonsense. And they always djs, always playing that type of music. You know what I mean? And I always say, I listen to it, too, because growing up, we listen to violent music. Bong Dikhila didn't sing kumbaya. Ninja man himself. He sing badness right through. That's how he made his money. [00:07:51] Speaker A: I think he created part of that. [00:07:55] Speaker C: And many people who we play that type of music and we listen that type of music, we never turn it into action. You understand? So there is a point that we need to draw and understand. Well, okay, I could listen to the music, but I am responsible for my life. So if a song. Tell me if the new song is jump off a cliff, jump off a cliff, jump off a cliff, jump off a cliff. And I real like, jump off a cliff. I like the melody. It real nice. I like the voices. So I just supposed to just jump off a cliff. It's something, too, where we as well, we have to know, yes, this is happening, but we need to take responsibility for ourselves. [00:08:41] Speaker A: Correct. [00:08:42] Speaker C: We have to do that because we can't just let things slide and say, well, I did it because of the music. [00:08:47] Speaker A: But I have a question, though. Like, do y'all believe that a song can influence, let's just say, for example, this is another opinion of mine, right? Another argument I have with a lot of people. I don't think a song. Let me say badman music, as they call it. I don't think a song could turn a youth into a bad man. Meaning you're bad. You're bad, as we say it. He had no belly, like we tell people. Do you think sometimes we young, he had no belly, he can't hit nobody. He can't shoot nobody. Because it's not music. Don't influence what I look at it. I never see our youth grow up as a good youth. Good, good youth to heart. And listen to our vibes cartel and turn a murderer. Now he might feel bad. He might go in the party and throw up gun sign. He might. Little aspects of it might be there. But to say that the music is creating monsters. The monsters are already there. With or without the music. You could take off dancehall music and it will always have criminals. Is it amplifying certain things, like, as I say, I'm on my Guinness party and feeling bad. Like the lifestyle, the dress code, the way you might talk, the way you might wear pants. [00:10:06] Speaker C: But is it really. [00:10:10] Speaker B: But Kiji, I was discussing this. I think I'd mentioned ablaze. Where when someone says he feel he bad. If I pick up a gun or a bottle or whatever, or encourage somebody, at what point do you say, I feel bad? You're bad if you do the action or you're even thinking. He thought, well, I'm not saying some. [00:10:33] Speaker A: Of them not even doing action. They just listen to the music. But the people who do any action, the people who do any murders and doing the kidnappings. Do you really believe that is music? Have these people doing these things? [00:10:44] Speaker B: But the music might be playing a part. If I am there and say, for example, drinking Hennessy or you're all charged up. I remember growing up with music like ACDC and Metallica and kiss knights and satanic service and all these sort of real. What's it called? Acid rock or hard rock. It would put you into a frenzy. So it's not just the music, but it's part and parcel of that environment. So, for example, I went to redemption. And I must note that Bourgeobanton didn't sing. Even though the crowd may have called Fred songs like Bombay. [00:11:24] Speaker C: But he can't. If he could have, he probably might have. [00:11:33] Speaker B: The music. He didn't perform certain songs. And I was hoping that there was a changed environment, but a change of lifestyle. But if you're saying it simply can't. Well, the point is that he didn't sing it. But there was music that I grew up on Bourgeobanton, so hearing our music in itself and people, let's say the little smells around and things like that, the aromas in your nose, in my nose, the environment here in bourgeois. And of course, these artists who came out, they sounded just like they have no auto Tunes or lip syncing. They just like it. And it put me into, they say, dwarfy dread to be felt at one. I also did a quick interview with Luciano, and we took a photo afterwards and I did the sign, and I got some backlash with on social media because people said, boy, there's a rastafarian sign. How are you going up with that? And I said, well, what's the issue here? So you heard about they don't eat meat, they mightn't be into certain on folly, things like that. And one of the other things was that it was their understanding. They're not on Christianity. Now. I don't know enough about rastafarian to make that judgment. But to me it was a connection, it was a vibe. [00:13:01] Speaker D: You was feeling it. [00:13:04] Speaker B: This is Luciano, the messenger. [00:13:08] Speaker C: But Johansey, let me ask. [00:13:12] Speaker D: You have a point. [00:13:13] Speaker C: A studied place. [00:13:14] Speaker D: All right. [00:13:14] Speaker C: And I want to ask you this, right. Do you think in terms of the music, as Robert was talking about, do you think the environment also would contribute? [00:13:23] Speaker D: So, yes. So you said something before and Katie said something before, and everything linked right before. You're saying we grew up listening to the bounty killer and he's. No, no Kumbaya music and you use, you would. It never made us do something negative, right. And I would give the caveat, not everybody, because I remember I listened to bounty, kale and ting to a lot of us in school, and most of us it didn't do anything to. But some men, it had them a little violent. Some men, they got aggressive. Even some men who we didn't think had it in them, right, but got aggressive. Scrape up, scrape a bottle, something so. Right. And then KG, you're saying you never see the music change? Somebody who typically grew up good, I. [00:14:06] Speaker A: Never released into a bad. If he did change music was least of what we think changed that person. [00:14:15] Speaker D: Well, let me say we don't know. But what the caveat is that you didn't change or a lot of us didn't change because of the values that we grew up with. [00:14:23] Speaker A: Correct? [00:14:24] Speaker D: And that has something to do with our parenting and then our environment also. So the susceptibility to being influenced may have been lower for us because of how we grew up. So I put in that fact. Because even what you're asking me about the environment. Because the strength and the resiliency here is important. Now, what I have noticed since I was a child till now is the resiliency, the mental resiliency of the youth has dropped significantly. So if I using that correlation with the music. Because let's say there's always music that wasn't perfectly positive, whether it is love songs, right? It had some real raunchy love songs back in the day, right? And even some violent music, whether it is. We want to call it modern or not. But back in the day, the susceptibility was less. [00:15:20] Speaker B: So. [00:15:21] Speaker D: Now, I think even putting that in the mix, why it is now even the youth are more susceptible. So art, immediate life. So we see in the drug use, we see the gangster, we see in the murders, right? That is evident. But now the youth. And I've noticed even just quick, back in the day, when Ludacris had come out with this song, pro them bows, right? I was seeing people hitting people elbow. And I was like, why are they doing that? I hear what Ludacris and I understand the freedom and the wildness of it, but not necessarily it will still me to actually hit somebody elbow. But I noticed people. They were hitting people elbow. So I noticed it had a certain degree. [00:16:01] Speaker B: Soca, pick up something, anything. The whole thing. [00:16:04] Speaker D: Toro. [00:16:04] Speaker B: All of these things are to get you to do a certain action, right? So I am saying that the music plays a part. Yes. You're still responsible for your actions, ultimately, with the music. People look at some of these artists as mentors, as idols. And therefore, there must be a responsibility. But I want us to take a pause there and come back with that, with some further thoughts on that. So this is man hood. And what we're discussing is how does music impact our generations? And some of the thoughts that we had, some differing in terms of, does music actually impact someone to be bad? Or is it that they were bad already? And some of the concerns I would have expressed and of Johanse and blaze to KG would have been around the sense of that it does have some sort of additive, or it does impact in certain ways. As I mentioned, you're listening to rock or listening to certain music. And Johansson, you made a point before about some people may have, like I said in my day, was scrape our bottle. Now is our gun listening to certain bits of music? They may be the few, but the few would have maybe. As to what you said, kg might have already been bad. I would like to say that. [00:17:41] Speaker A: Even. [00:17:41] Speaker B: Though we recognize that it must have an impact. In the same way the person has a responsibility to what they're listening to, to not act. But the music that somebody's producing, you know, that you produce it with certain elements in there that are going to get me going to play on my many senses. Be it a woman doing a clap and things like that, and all of these different things. There's a lot of sexual stuff in there. When I see that and I'm seeing all these signs, I would just like to presence. When I was growing up. One, there was also the fact that you didn't have access to firearms like you have now. It wasn't as readily available and in your face as you're seeing now. The other thing is, I am one of those that even though I love the music, even today, only when certain, like coming to this show or even friends before, would mention certain things about the lyrics, did I recognize what the lyrics were. To me, I just enjoyed. I enjoyed the beats and the vibes and the feeling it gave me. As opposed to really understanding what specifically they were saying. So even though there were areas like ninja man might have been really talking about killing a man. And now we see maybe some other artists as you go along. Very similar to Trinidad, maybe in Jamaica. Speaking specifically, live in the beatum. [00:19:11] Speaker A: The police going in the beatum and laventill with high powered rifles, three, four jeeps. Why? Because they know this is a dangerous community. So we have to protect ourselves. If the police officers could protect themselves, we not supposed to protect KG, who known as this producer. And some of people envying him because he produced him for I supposed to not protect myself. I supposed to go to the law and wait for them to protect me. So this is how these youths see things. They see things like all you might not understand because all you live in all in ice house and everything good. But we live in a place where I could walk out my yard and a man shoot me for my chin. So I have to protect myself. And through that protection, no, it just creates not right, but it is real. And it just creates a type of energy. Now where the youths and then believe that this is the life. And this is just how the thing set. I have friends that they're able to go to carnival, fetts normal. They go in Fet and they whiny and they drink and then drunk any party. Some of these ghetto youths don't even know about our kind of life. Because in their head, every time we go out, there's some kind of madness. Now but this is what we know, so we have to protect ourselves. And that is the only thing they know. So when they go in the studio now, they sing this kind of music, and the people who don't know about the life, they're just looking at it as violent music. But it's our culture, it's our lifestyle. It's something that they grew up from. Inception is all we know. [00:20:44] Speaker B: Is there hope? How do we reach those young men? [00:20:48] Speaker A: By supporting them instead of fighting them. I'd always be like, trinity bad was like an opportunity for the youths and them to do something. Regardless of what I was singing about. It was an opportunity for them to just make a change within the community. Could have so many opportunities in the ghetto now, like, so many users want to be singers and producers and videographers and graphic artists, and they want to be in the industry. True Trinibadner, but have a lot of unfortunate situations in the Trinibad. A lot of youths die and whatnot. And it give the music a bad name. Not realizing, as I say, a criminal is a criminal. Regardless if you are singing or not, if you're doing wrong things in your life, people will kill you. Nobody ain't going to kill no artist because she's singing gunman music. They're going and kill you because you're singing it and doing it. In the real life, it's a lifestyle. These youths are running dongna. And I think that is the only problem. It's not necessarily music because the jamaican artists and them been singing the gunman music for years and none of them getting shoot. So we attack ourselves. How come Dana gain shoot and they create the gunman dance? All. How come we gain shoot? Because this is a problem in Trinidad that been happening. The murder rate been out of control since Abu Bakadis. So I guess we just had to continue supporting the. [00:22:12] Speaker D: Kiji. I appreciate you sharing your story, because I think that more artists should be able to share their story to give context to the music. Because even outside of Trinidad music, when listening to other types of music, like we say, even rap, old school music, many times when you hear the story of the artist, it's born out of some kind of pain. [00:22:36] Speaker A: Correct? Right. [00:22:37] Speaker D: Even Eminem, if you remember Eminem music, right? Out of some kind of pain. And the truth is, none of us have a perfect life. All of us have something painful that we went through that we also express in our art and whatever we do. Because even for myself in counseling, it is because of how I grew up, right? And one having a platform and even as men, this is something that we could consider having a platform where the artists could be able to speak, so the same audience, whether they are susceptible to the influence or not, they could hear your story and be able to understand the context. And also, I want to say, the solutions part of it, because in the music, yes, we might express the pain of it, but even how I approach my stuff is based on solution based or solution focus. Because the point, if you come into therapy at the end of the day, you want some kind of solution at the end. So even in the expression of the music, maybe the approach now could be something with a solution versus just what it is. Because even though the music and the approach may have stayed the same, that could be erroneous, because nothing stays the same. So if the approach of music before was different, we're in a new time now, so maybe approaching music could be different. Because before music videos even was nothing. Usually we hear, right, so we hear it and we come up with our own interpretations based on our values, et cetera. But now we have music videos, so now that bring out even certain degree of real estate. So even if I understand what he was saying before, I might not understand. No, but I could see. So sometimes all I could do is imitate the action and to understand the impact of it. So I'm real happy that you share your story and I even encourage that even more. And I would encourage the approach to be a little different because at the end of the day, I think this could be my utopian view. But the point of anything we do in even manhood, is solution based, is to make things better. And if we're going by stats, if you notice things not getting better, then we should do something different. [00:24:41] Speaker A: Correct? [00:24:43] Speaker C: I agree as well. And I also want to add to that, in terms of music, what I think is happening with Trinibad, I like to say Trinibad, but it is what it is. But I think it's real. Now, when we used to listen to jamaican music, what they were speaking about and the areas and the people and the gangs, the rema and the jungle, and we've always heard of these things. We didn't know it. We didn't know it. But when I hear, or when someone hears someone singing about a gangster here and an area here, like, I remember I was hearing a trinity bad song a few years ago, and he say, if you think we go meet you outside sea tree and lick off your head, and I know where sea tree is. [00:25:39] Speaker A: Rebel six. [00:25:40] Speaker C: Yeah, rebel six. I know where it is so immediately it hit me different now than if they say, well, if we catch you outside Montego B. I don't really know where that is. [00:25:53] Speaker B: I just sing any song now in your garden, right. [00:25:58] Speaker C: But no, I think that gives the movement a more realness. And as Kiji said, remember, they're singing about real things. They're not singing about fake. [00:26:10] Speaker A: Music is a reflection of the life, of the life. [00:26:12] Speaker C: It's a real life. [00:26:13] Speaker A: Like, growing up, I always knew Jamaica was a dangerous place, regardless how nice it was. You always knew because of shutters and all these things. You watch movies like they are painting the real picture of where they are from. Trinidad now is a kind of fake island where we used to always project this carnival thing and this steel band thing. When people die in human trafficking, drugs all over the place, the police talk, Trinidad, Trinidad need to fix a lot of things, right? But coming up, they never advertise that to the people. We always try to make it seem. And now they come down for the. [00:26:48] Speaker C: We never expose the underbelly. [00:26:50] Speaker A: Never. We hide it for years. And Trinibad is literally the first time we literally say, look at what happening. And I've been real since Trinibad was created. Everybody know what we don't know. All I didn't know was the boss's name. And who's the boss in Betham, and who was the boss here? Nobody didn't know these things. So now everybody knows. [00:27:14] Speaker C: Let me just ask one question, Keith. You think, though, in terms of the. As Joancy was saying, in terms of the approach of the music, I mean, we seeing that people dying. Yes, but there are people who are posing. You don't think that they're men who are bad men. You don't think about bad men posing as artists? Definitely, because that is why some of these things happen. These are men posing as artists. They're not really artists. They don't really love music. They're just bad men. [00:27:46] Speaker A: And they get a rhyme correct. [00:27:48] Speaker C: So that and all is something we. [00:27:50] Speaker A: Need to also look at that we need to look at problem. [00:27:55] Speaker B: And I want us, KG, to further ventilate and discuss that point. We're just taking a pause and that really is a good topic. Are we really still living in sweet TNT? [00:28:22] Speaker C: Welcome back to manhood. And we're all here and we've got into a lot of great discussion from different forums and so on. And we. We continue here on CNC three. And I mean, I want to continue where I left off, KG, where I was making the point. And I observe because you're looking at current affairs. I work on an urban station, and you look into these things and you're hearing a lot of death, destruction, threats, everything around the trinity. Bad music. And you're looking at men who may be, quote unquote, gangsters or bad men, and they want to sing. So they bring in that ill repute into the thing, into your session. [00:29:08] Speaker A: And I see problem. That is, like, my only problem. I did a video a couple of days ago that went extremely viral on the Internet because of the things I was seeing. A lot of people didn't like what I was seeing. I was seeing the so called bosses that we look up to in these communities, and they're not really doing anything or whatever. But also I was saying that a lot of men coming into the industry to amplify the wrong that you're already doing in the life. And that is why you're seeing so much Trinity bad youths dying. Because the ones that are dying is not necessarily artists. They are gangsters that see our lane. Because, I mean, if you have all the guns already and you have all the chains, and you have everything that the Trinidad industry, they love, just go in a studio and sing a song, you understand? And I guess that is the problem that's going on in industry right now that I don't really agree with. Lead the artist to be artist, lady. Batman to be Batman. [00:30:08] Speaker D: Well, KG, truth is an important thing. And I like how you know that we may have been hiding things as a nation, right? And you highlighted the wood underbelly. And the only way for us to even solve anything is to understand the truth of it. [00:30:26] Speaker A: Truth. [00:30:27] Speaker D: And after exposing the truth, now is where the solutions come. And to even take the courage to want to expose the truth puts yourself under the fire. And I believe, and this is my opinion, is that a man, that role of a man, each one of us have a certain skill set, a responsibility, even a certain power, influence over a certain part of society that we responsible for. And that DSA and those of you who are familiar with Jordan Peterson, Jordan Peterson say a man should be able to die for whatever he believe in. So if it is your rule, or the rule of Trinibad in its purest form, is to expose the truth of it, then it may sound a little morbid, but we are to be willing to die for it. And that's how any change. Now, I'm not saying you should die for it or that it's okay to die for it, but being willing to die for it because some of the opinions you share and many people wouldn't like, and you'll put yourself under dispute, danger, even now, even actual threat to your life. And even us as men here, we speak in. The point is for us to speak honestly and we may become under some kind of backlash because somebody disagree with it. But the point is, if you're committed to something and even inspiring the youth, because the youths have a truth they want to also disseminate. And for us, even as elders, because we're older, for us to even help them, we have to understand what the truth of things and understand it. So I appreciate it, and I will say it again, I appreciate you saying the story. And if no. And as Robert here saying before adding the element now of one solutions, two, if we know that there are elements that bring in the music to distribute, is to expose it. And I've seen that with a little apprehension, but also with conviction, because how else we will change things? You ask the question if TNT is still sweet. I think our written went down on the happiest nation, right? And the truth is that we, a lot of us, and this is from almost 1012 years doing this field of psychology, counseling behavior change in Trinidad, is that we tend to go from carnival to Christmas. That is the drug. Carnival to Christmas, carnival to Christmas. And even if I go statistically when we're not in carnival season, there's a high influx of clients coming for help. As soon as carnival and Christmas come, clients go down, because now we have the drug. And it was interesting. I remember one year, Ash Wednesday morning, I got a call, 07:00 a.m. Somebody ready for a session because they already get the drug and he hire carnival and he come down, right? And now to commentate. So I believe it's really important for us to see the truth of our nation, because the only way for us to really reach where we want to be, right, vision 2020, vision 2030, or wherever we want to go, is to expose the truth of things. [00:33:44] Speaker B: I wanted just to touch on something you said there, Johansey, and I want to presence two things based on some feedback that we've seen on a couple of the episodes that have been shown already, or conversations rather, that we've had with manhood. I want to presence, first off, when we discuss what it takes to be a man. We are not saying that a man has to be what may be considered a manly man. Testosterone, high end, is good in sports, plenty girls. All of this a man, as we discuss and we want to define it, is based on your value system and being that man is based on having values that are accepted by society. And more importantly, the person which you have those interactions with, that you leave the room better than you found it. And that is what we. I think from my perspective, we determine to be a man. And so when we go on values and our responsibilities. The second thing I want to presence is that we are not in any way trying to undermine or stop the movement of Trinibad or that's the name of the genre, right? It's called Trinibad. And even that may need to change at some point. Because if I call it Trinity bad, you have already put that negative connotation on. [00:35:09] Speaker A: We grew up saying that car real bad, that shoe. [00:35:12] Speaker B: Right? Now I understand. So Trinity bad in that sense, really? [00:35:14] Speaker C: Trinity good. [00:35:18] Speaker B: In my growing up, we would say that real sick, right? So therefore, again, as even you, Hanse was speaking about maybe KG you, as far as I am aware, the best or the number one producer of that music, the person everybody goes to that we meet people where they act and have that understanding of. In the same way, like I was just educated. And the persons listening on here are now educated as to what you mean by bad as opposed to a bad man. [00:35:50] Speaker A: Correct. [00:35:51] Speaker B: And we're not in any way trying to cry down in music. Because I've listened to a couple tunes and there is certainly potential and beats and all the rest of it. What I'm saying to you is right now, when we were growing up. [00:36:07] Speaker D: And. [00:36:08] Speaker B: I'm still growing up, the area is that as blaze mentioned, I didn't know those areas or I wasn't in the face of crime. The underbelly, as we put it, was hidden. The music was just about vibes. So even though the lyrics might have been bad meaning bad, not bad meaning good, it was still unknown to me. And I'm saying. But no, they always say meet people where they're at. And with the fear that we are going through now of crime and gunmaning and any number could play. It's like a lottery right now that you hearing that music, it is not in any way giving me pleasure. And it seems like what we're doing is further dividing the artists from the audience in terms of the audience you may then want to get to. So that it may be played on radio stations. But that's not because no sponsor or no person listening on is going to really feel good hearing that music. Knowing that I know here about three man gear shoot. So I'm saying that could we look at maybe recognizing that, acknowledging that and even somehow explaining more. As you mentioned, you all discussed it again, it was another educating moment for me, which is that it's a story. But to me, I look at the video and it just comes across, as opposed to them telling the story of what they see and what they know. It seems as if they're saying, I am going to do this to you, and all these signs like that. Of course. Yeah. [00:37:47] Speaker A: Also, people need to understand that everything is stages. Like we grew up listening Jay Z 50, all these people, and they start singing a certain type of music when there was any hood, and then they became successful and the music changed. So that was like, we have to support the youths. [00:38:06] Speaker B: Agreed. [00:38:07] Speaker A: A youth will always start singing what he know. All I know is this. So I will say, I never been to Hyatt, I never been to America, I never been to. So they can't sing about these things. They don't know anything about these things. All they could sing about is what they're seeing in the community. The more we support them, the bigger they will get, the more the radio stations continue supporting them. And stop pushing the narrative of, hey, them singing gunman music. Because the reality is all of us listen gunman music. So let me just stop fighting on the local youths. Because, for example, Prince Swani, he's like the mecca of Trinidad. He start the hype. He come out with the big up the b's and big up the c's. But today he not really on that. He more doing colors with Kodak Black and he doing bigger things because he came out. Yeah. And the reason why he got so big is because we had the support of Trinidad at that particular time before all the debts started to happen and people, as you say, people started to get scared and started to pull away. And we had the support. So we was getting the 10 million views and 15 million views. And because of that support, we are literally as big as the Jamaicans. So these Jamaicans was coming to Trinidad to collab with us because they was looking at Trinidad as the new dance, all hype. Then the killing started to happen and whatnot, and the people started to divide, and now it kind of come back down. [00:39:30] Speaker B: So how do we get it to, as we have Calypso and we have SoCA, how do we get that to be another genre that, globally, people will want to support? [00:39:39] Speaker A: As I say, like, support. I personally do not like when we try to fight them, dong, like, we try to bring dong the name. Like, if we do not listen to this music internationally, why is it a problem? As blaze is it because it close? That is why we don't want to support it. Because it close. [00:39:59] Speaker D: It could be one. Because it close. Because we generally, humans, Trinidadians, a lot of times we uncomfortable when our shortcomings get exposed, and not to say even exposed privately, because sometimes we lie to ourselves, but especially publicly. Right. And that's why I was saying, I appreciate it. So you would have a box. No, I don't know anything about that. But you're listening to the music, right? So that's one, two, you're saying in terms of support, right? And that's why I'm glad you're even on this forum, because based on the feedback thus far, even from the errand of the first conversation that we've had, there are lots of people support. Even on my way here, some people stop me and say, you know what? I didn't even know men distinguish these things. I didn't even know men going through these things. And of course, each man here is in a different field. So in your field, the opportunity for you to be able to tell your story again. And each artist, now that we're in an age where we have podcasts, we have YouTube, telling a story could be even part of your format now so that people understand it. And then if I go back, I remember I was analyzing. This might sound a little strange, but I used to analyze things long time, right? So I was analyzing sizzler music at that time. And from when he went to black woman and child to pump up, right. I was wondering, okay, why he did that. And even was the impact and doing some research when he was singing the black woman and child type music, the crime rate in Jamaica actually went down. [00:41:33] Speaker C: It did, right? [00:41:34] Speaker D: So there's actually statistical evidence to prove correlation, right? So even understanding that and even use Prince. Prince one, even him could also be part of the revolution of changing things. Because he could tell in his story, of him. Him telling his story. Because just like Jay Z, when Jay Z came with Beyonce, now it's a different type of music here, but they're telling the story. Whether it is musically or interview wise. [00:41:59] Speaker A: I think is our major problem. The youths in the local industry, again, we don't really have much platforms. When I see this, I was like, this is what we need. We need more of these things. The other day, the fix from Jamaica came down. I don't know if you all know about the fix that is a jamaican podcast. They came down and they interviewed the whole Trinibad, and they were actually doing a documentary about Trinibad. And they was getting all the key elements in Trinidad and people was coming and telling the story. Swan, he come and tell them where he come from. Hunga, there's that. And people felt it. People was like, all right, cool. Toppy boss came on and he talked about the crime and what going on. So people started to understand. I came out, I say certain things. So I guess, again, we need more support and we need more platforms for the youths, for them to be more creative. Not just go in a studio, sing a song, put it on YouTube, it go on all day. Two man get shoot tomorrow. No, we need a little more belly, but we need it from people like you all, people who have that type of influence out there, because these are ghetto youths. These are not youths that know what they're doing. These are youth that come last in test. And as I know, I said, I'm going to be back at the class, but I get opportunity to do something. So we know who have the mindset. I just try my best because know a little more intellectual than them and why I didn't grow up in beta mosalers. No. My mother and them tried to put a certain foundation for me. That's why I could speak the way I speak today. So all the youths in Trinidad, I always sit down with them and I talk to them and I try to mentor them. And regardless of the gunman music, I try to put things in their head, simple things as getting a passport, getting a visa, showing them some things on my phone. Hey, look where I went. Look at LA, look at Miami. [00:43:51] Speaker C: Just to elevate. [00:43:53] Speaker A: Yeah, because they don't know. And that's something I notice about them. They literally don't know. [00:43:58] Speaker B: They don't know. And in the kingdom of the blindy, one eye man is king. And what you focus on is what you see and what's in your environment. As we said, what they see is what they're singing about. But it needs to become more of a story of letting us know and exposing that underbelly to everyone to be able, for both parties on both sides of defense, to understand and to elevate and to bring Trinidad and Tobago back to where we all wanted because we want it to be a safer place. I don't think they want to be doing what they're doing or be in the environment they're doing, but we have to ensure that we're meeting each other. And I remember one friend of mine, in doing research, said that a lot of persons go into these environments or try to do these give backs, but they do it from the position of guys, all of just stay where all you are, stay there. So we want to help you enough so you don't come into my environment or my homes. So your position is still work out of fear. And those environments, those communities receive that and they know that. And therefore you become more and more feral as you go along, generation to generation, not understanding maybe what may have started everything from the embryonic stages of it. And now, as you grow up and you're into those environments, you're surviving. We mightn't see it as surviving because our survival is different. Their survival is that. And they're singing of that. As you said, most persons might even know what they're singing is of that environment. To them, this is normal convo. But I want to personally end on that note for me, as part of my wrap up on this particular conversation of manhood, which I thought was very insightful. And I want to go around the table with everyone having their closing thoughts. And KG, if you could, you normally have these inspirational messages that I know that you send to the community. If you will do us a solid today as a brother and close off after everyone has gone around the table. And we'll certainly like to welcome you back to have these conversations as we continue. So, Blaze. [00:46:12] Speaker D: Thank you. Right. You know, they say knowledge is power. So the more we understand even what Trinibar is, is the more that we could even assist as men. Iron sharpening iron, having your brother's back. Because as Robert was saying, I believe that all of us want a better Trinidad and Tobago. A better wolf living, as cliched as it may sound. The thing is, I want to be able to walk the street in our gold chain anytime I want. Because that's what I like. I want my children to be able to do that. I want to see your children do it right. And whatever we could do to better understand it. Because I'm sure even people listening to today's conversation. Got some new knowledge into what even Chinibad is, and understanding your story. And even now, they could even analyze, even outside of us, how they could help, what solutions are possible. So, KG, thank you. And I actually look forward to even hearing the story of some of the other artists. So we could understand exactly how we could help. Not just as men, but even as brothers. And as citizens of Trinidad and Tobago. [00:47:22] Speaker B: And recognizing Johansey, that they too are our brothers and sisters. [00:47:27] Speaker A: Correct. [00:47:29] Speaker B: We're all part of this. We're all part of being Trinidad and Tobago. [00:47:34] Speaker C: Well, the thing is, I totally agree and, you know, mean this segment, this conversation is far from mean. We could discuss so much more about the elements of the music, the elements of why the music is like that, how it affects people. I think this is just the tip of the iceberg that we're discussing here. I would encourage to probably have Kiji on again later on or bring a partner or something like that and see how that would happen. But we also must, in terms of music, how it affects people. It is age old. I mean, there's a story we all know about the Pied Piper. That story is a story we grew up with, and we saw what the Pied Piper can do, and that is music. So we have to always be careful. But we as a society, and we as people, and we as leaders of our homes and so on, we must also take a responsibility to look at the youth and the next generation, because we are not without fault. We can't just blame it on the music and say, well, is the music? Because we had to be better parents. We have to be better parents. We ought to be better fathers. We had to be better uncles. We have to be better people, because we have to take part of the responsibility, too. Because even when I was in my music phase, and I like my music phase, I always tell the story. I remember Chakadima Singh and young girl, business control, Jamaica. Her and my mother said, no, you understand? We as parents have to do that, too. So the artists can sing what they want, but we have to also filter nicely. [00:49:24] Speaker A: Truth. [00:49:24] Speaker C: You know what I mean? And the more we filter, they realize, well, they're not really taking to this. This is what going on here. When Sizzler was Sizzler in 95 and 96 something, I know plenty partners who I grew up with, Dayton Raster, offer the music, you know what I mean? So we have to be careful. And we can't just cast blame on the music alone. We can't just cast blame on the artists and the producers alone. We also have to be better. And talking in terms of men, we have to be better men, and we have to show the example, and we have to set the pace and say, this is not what it's supposed to be, or this is the way it's. [00:50:04] Speaker D: Supposed to be, correct. [00:50:05] Speaker C: You know what I mean? So I was really happy because we hear the next side, too. It's very important. They had the three sides. [00:50:12] Speaker A: They will always have different sides. When I started to really push the whole trinity, bad movement, that was, like, my whole aim. I grew up in a country where if I wanted to be an artist, I had to be a soca artist. But I don't like rum. I don't like hot sun. [00:50:32] Speaker C: That is me. [00:50:34] Speaker A: So it was hard for me to be creative because I always used to look at it like, why my country so boxed in and why we hide in every. Like, even the reggae all stars I did is disappear. I grew up listening to this music. I wanted to be a reggae artist. And as soon as I was the age where I could have been a reggae artist, and grimal locks and thing, the luck of that. So it was like real stifling. And I know a lot of creatives could agree, as in, we feel very stifled, as know. We feel like we have to choose one thing to get through in Trinidad or we have to be a certain way to get through, we have to speak a certain way. Like, I remember the days when me used to have to go on the radio station and we couldn't even talk Trinidad dialect, but the Jamaicans would go on their radio station and be like, yeah, by blood. And yeah, me, I figured. And people used to look at that is how the artists talk. But in Trinidad, we had to be like the. Because we so caught up in how it looked and what it really is. My vision was never to promote violent music because, as always, tell people that Trinibar is not only about violent music, a lot of other music in the Trinidad genera, but, you know, the tingers go, people love the action thing. We love the John Wick. We love the call of duty. We love the bad man music. We love action know. And that is what really sell the Trinity bar. But the mission was never to promote violence. The mission was to promote reality and to promote what is really going on in the inner cities of Trinidad and Tobago. Thank you for being here. I appreciate it. I must say, I always appreciate platforms where I could just bring the other side to the coin. Pick up on yourself. [00:52:25] Speaker D: Thank you. [00:52:27] Speaker B: It was a very insightful conversation. Nothing more to be said on my part, but a lot still to be said on this topic. So, KG, we certainly want to have you on set again. [00:52:42] Speaker C: I would like to go on a Trinity bad set, too. I want to see. [00:52:46] Speaker B: Yeah, I was like, behind. [00:52:47] Speaker C: And I think that's another thing, too. [00:52:49] Speaker A: And it's a love. [00:52:50] Speaker C: That's another thing. Remember, you'll see it on videos, I think. But being really get to go and see it now, to be part of. [00:52:57] Speaker A: It, people would look at it and be scared. I feel so safe in these communities. The only thing they're bringing down these communities is the crime. But there's so much love in these communities. Beat them. Sealants love until there's so much love. When you go into these communities, you just realize that this is the real life here. Families in the road, children playing football, cricket is love. Not like how the. [00:53:21] Speaker B: I could tell you firsthand. I've been to what people say. Somebody darkest communities love. And never had anybody come apart from say boy sportsman boy. [00:53:32] Speaker A: Yeah. People like you all would go into these communities and think that they might want to rabble. They actually appreciate that when they see Kg come get a camera, they're happy. They take my camera. They want me to put it on and put it on them. [00:53:46] Speaker B: No, I'm saying that my experience has been quite the opposite. I don't feel fearful. I've never gone through even all the roads and people to know is a conversation. I don't feel that way. But my point is that there are people that feel that way. We can't ignore that the violence and crime is happening in Tobago. And this genre is being perceived as contributing to that. So the point of the conversation today was very good convo and hearing all the sides. And I'm certainly better off for it is to understand where the vision of the music is and how we can do better to be able to get to that vision, to see that vision. So once again, good conversation. Another really insightful episode of manhood. Joan say, always a pleasure. KG welcome anytime brother and Blaze. [00:54:41] Speaker C: I think I remember a time you were fearful somewhere and he had called for rescues somewhere. [00:54:48] Speaker B: So that's where he comes. [00:54:52] Speaker C: He was fearful somewhere. It.