Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: You.
[00:00:04] Speaker B: Thank you for joining us for another episode, or as I'm always saying, another conversation. Manhood is really, really important.
And I try as much, as much as I remember to reiterate that it's not about a stature, it's not about your strength, it's not about a particular behavior or whether you like sports or not. Being a man is about your morals, your moral compass, and how you're received by your peers. Today is really an exciting one because the topic today is emotional regulation. Let me introduce the panel. First of all, we're all hosting. I'm so delighted to have you all as normal. Johansey Iodk behavior change consultant. You know that I'm getting that smooth.
Smooth like a river, almost.
[00:00:55] Speaker A: Go ahead.
[00:00:56] Speaker B: Notice I said smooth like a river, not like a laker, because it's in between. At some point you have your pockets a river when you're going the river. At certain points that are still, and in other parts, it could be turbulent. So there are moments. But I'll still take the kudos. Another good friend, Riyadh, emirates no stranger to anyone, West Indies cricketer, top guy all in all, I'm digging the kicks, I must say. Niall Royale producer and also a friend, it's a very tricky topic. It's a very tricky topic. And some of the conversation that we had in the lead up before the red button was pressed and record started, we spoke about off the cuff. And of course, Johansey has a definition that he wants to talk about that he believes in.
And I want to make sure that he expresses that before we get into the conversation because we started to speak about something off topic but still part of the topic because it's still emotion, and we started talking about self heat. So I really want to also add that into the mix. But first of, let's hear Johansson's definition of emotional regulation that I was given.
[00:02:14] Speaker A: That I believe in.
Emotional regulation refers to the ability to effectively manage, and I like the word manage because there's a root man there. Manage and controls one emotion in order to adapt to different situations and maintain psychological well being. It involves understanding, expressing and managing emotions in a healthy and constructive manner. Emotional regulation plays a crucial role in our overall mental health and interpersonal relationships.
All right, that was a little mouthful, but for the most part, I do agree with this, especially in terms of I wasn't wrong. You believe in it in terms of adapting to different situations and maintaining psychological well being. Because a simple definition for mental health is the way we think, feel and behave. Based on that, you could tell how mentally healthy you are or not. So the ability to adapt, because many times things happen and we can't predict it. So that kind of really got you, show you how you would truly react in something, because if we have time to calculate how we react in, you wouldn't get our true result and you wouldn't really see how mentally healthy you are. So we could start there, because as men, I mean, humans, but as men, we are faced with many different situations that sometimes we don't plan for. And a lot is on our place and a lot is on our shoulders. And if we go in terms of being, let's call it a quote unquote traditional man, where we handle most of things for our families, we have to be the rock. We have to be the person carrying things and sometimes not complain, not react. So we could start with Robert. No, you talked before we started, Niall.
[00:04:12] Speaker C: Let's jump back in. But I just wanted to be clear that one love, in terms of regulation, that does not mean don't show emotion. I feel like we have to be very open when saying that, because I find a lot of the times men choose to.
I don't want to say how I feel because this is how it's supposed to be and I don't agree to that at all. I find that if it is, I feel like crying in front of my girl or in front of my mother, I am going to let out tears. You understand?
And it's easy to worry about how you're being perceived by your peers, especially like your breadwins. You can't cry in front of your bridge. But I am balling if it is dazzi case, right? Because as the definition said, it is for mental health. For me, letting it out is healthy in a song. That's how I look at it. Anytime you try to contain any type of emotion that you're feeling overwhelmed by, and you now have to put on a face to try to, I guess, to make other people feel comfortable, that's where you're moving into this space of unhealthiness, in my opinion.
[00:05:31] Speaker B: I agree.
You said it there, where you said, is it for yourself or is it for someone else that you are not showing this emotion or showing a particular emotion? I was saying to you guys, or maybe even Rihanna, we were talking about if as a man or anyone, you are out of control. They always say sometimes when you write a particular thing, it could be to your boss, it could be to a friend or whoever, you should wait maybe 24 hours before you actually send it so you read it over. Right. So what it's really trying to say is if you are out of control, you are giving up that control. And if you're giving up that control, that person or that those persons are now in control towards your behavior and are then taking control because you are now out of control. So they're in control. You're out of control now. So you need, in order to take that control, you have to be very sure of the motion that you want to give is the emotion you want. And even then, even if I decide, listen, I am consciously now going to be angry if that's what you want, you are still relinquishing that control because that might be the emotion that person wanted to evoke.
On a real side note here, we spoke about, you asked the question, why is it in certain cases, Trinis, there's a self hate riyadh? You were talking about the fact that, and I hope that you'd share it, the experiences in Afghanistan where now they're talking, know that sportsmen are really light and that when you go abroad you see this love. But in Trinidad it could be, boy, back of the line for you, boy.
[00:07:19] Speaker D: Yeah, it's difficult sometimes as an athlete, a national athlete, you give your heart and soul for your country and you expect when you come back home you'll be treated like not a hero, but somebody who appreciative. And you don't really get that when you come back home. Most of the times, not all the times, but most of it. And when we go out to other countries, even caribbean countries, we are loved so much more than your own country. And sometimes it hurts to know that you're giving your heart and soul for your country and somebody outside appreciate you more.
[00:07:58] Speaker B: But why you feel artists, though, because you are also Trini, you may behave the same way in another instance, I.
[00:08:07] Speaker D: Think as Trinis, we love ourselves more than other people.
I don't know if that is it, but sometimes we don't give.
I don't know if respect is the word, because you earn respect.
I don't know where's the word, but we don't appreciate our own.
[00:08:29] Speaker B: It's like West Indies cricket, for example. You might go there and give your all, but then unless you win the entire competition or you're beaten aside like India, I would say, even though I was a sports presenter, I don't know cricket like so many other persons, as in depth as they do. But what I would say is, people know me, know I'm a huge Manchester United fan. So win, lose or draw. I might not agree with the coach, I might agree with some of the players or the performance, but I'm not going to stop supporting the side. I will still support the side regardless. What I might disagree with is whether your heart and soul was in it. So, for example, if I'm watching West Indies cricket and you've given your heart and soul and not is about a big goal chain and about a party and all of these other things, then I'm still going to support you because I can't expect a side like, for example, India. When you do the research on that and you realize that I think they have to play first class cricket. It's mandatory to play first class cricket. And then from there you play in other teams. So you get in the best of the best and if you're not performing, they have a thousand other people coming for your spot. Right.
The point I'm trying to make is that as a trinity or West Indian, that level of love could be.
I'm probably going to be held with cancel culture.
I might be rambling some hot water. Remember there's a meal talk show, we just talk.
[00:10:13] Speaker A: I'm putting up my hand because I'm helping you regulate your emotion, right?
[00:10:18] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:10:18] Speaker A: Because I see what Nile letters brothers, you're saying regulation, and I didn't want it to mean that we're keeping it inside. So I'll first differentiate suppression versus regulation. Suppression is when you keep it inside and we're not expressing it. Regulation is that we're letting it out, but we regulate in a controlled manner.
[00:10:42] Speaker C: Not lashing out or not unleashing it.
[00:10:45] Speaker B: Venting, okay.
[00:10:46] Speaker A: Yes. And then as Riyadh, when you're saying. You're saying sometimes you feel hurt, right. How do you manage that emotion of hurt? Because if it happened more than once, even when you go out to play now, right. Sometimes you may even be thinking about the hood, you know? Well, I do know all of this and countrymen not giving me a certain. So how do you manage one emotions in general? Because I'm almost certain stepping out in front of a crowd, you must feel some kind of emotions. I don't know if the players from the other team probably might be telling you something. I don't know. But there are a lot of emotions that happen in the inside. How do you manage those emotions?
[00:11:21] Speaker D: So when you know start, you get a lot of butterfly, even though you get butterflies. But as you is a career going and I've been playing for, I'm fortunate, I'm blessed to say that I'm playing for a while now. I'm still playing professionally. So I have the experience. When I go out now, the crowd don't bother me at all. Sometimes I don't even feel like it. Have people in the crowd. So I get to that level now I focus on what I have to do. So the crowd, yes, you enjoy. So when you're playing in Trinidad, the Triniposi stand, the music you enjoy, you feed off that.
Know if somebody shouting something out in his hands, I don't hear that. So that is blank out for me. I don't know how other people reacted, but me, I hate to lose. I support Manchester United, so I know the feelings.
[00:12:10] Speaker B: I know we stronger as brothers.
[00:12:15] Speaker D: I hate to lose. But as you say, you negotiate. My main thing is to win. I forget about this one. Do get blind when you come true, when you come up any long lines and people recognize it, that kind of thing, I forget all about that. My main focus is to go there and do my job and do it to the best that I can.
[00:12:38] Speaker A: And you see what you're saying there, I think is all men could testify. See, when you say you blank out certain things, because I've heard women speak about their husbands like this in terms of, well, he blank. Like, he just blank mouth, he blankets out. Right. And I myself, I blank things out because I don't know if I've explained this on the show before, but the physiology of a male and a female brain different. We have less connections between the left and the right side of our brain. So in terms of our woman ability to, quote unquote multitask or task switch, we have less of it. So that's why we have a quote unquote one track mind. And that's also for our survival. Because back in the day, when you go out to hunt, we can't be thinking about your wife, your children, and all these things as you'll get killed. We have to be thinking about going for the food. And again, when I Getty food, you think about reaching back home and carrying it. So understanding to how we men process things is important. Knowledge is power. The more we understand ourselves. So you see how you able to regulate, not suppress it, regulate emotion. So you're aware you're feeling the butterfly, so you're not denying it. But you know now, okay, if I listen to the people shout and if I listen to this, it might affect me negatively. So I able to blank it out and then focus on the task at hand.
[00:13:57] Speaker C: Okay, just to come back very quickly, I actually don't think that is a case of Trinidadians not appreciating our athletes or Celebrities. I think deep, actually. We are fans. We love our stars. We love them. But it's a pride that we have where we can't. I can't show too much love.
The pride in our mind, it's coming as can't. I cannot physically. Let me give you a quick story.
[00:14:29] Speaker B: But you won our picture.
[00:14:31] Speaker C: We wanted to, but we still might ask. So a quick story of a friend told me of he's seeing Bravo in the mall, right? He said, wait, look, bravo, boy. This man will do plenty for my country. And he's coming on the. Bravo is coming on the escalator, right? Well, if he will stop to give my picture, boy, tappy bread dog. Look, bravo. As the man looking, man looking fresh, blah, blah. And as he slowly came closer to him, he is explaining it to me. He said, I said, boy, ride out with you. Yes.
[00:15:08] Speaker B: What happened?
[00:15:09] Speaker C: But he just, at a time when it mattered, when it was like, hey, I appreciate everything you do for me and for the country and blessings. He just could not give himself that moment to say that.
[00:15:26] Speaker B: A lot of times too, Niall, I would think that people, because it reminds me of the. I don't know if you recall when KG was here, we were talking about Trinibad music and we were speaking about the way the connection with the music is that back in our day when we hear in ninja man and Beanie man and things like that, they were speaking about areas that we weren't familiar with, mobi and things like that. But because now the trinity, it's actual areas that, you know, you've probably passed on a regular basis.
It brings it home. And so I'm saying in terms of seeing Dwayne Bravo or Brian Laro, you see them so regularly or like, you see them around and you think, okay, you're Trini, this is our rock.
You don't have the same, you know, he have five point something million followers and he big in India as we were talking about, or Brian Lara. But you just feel that. It's almost like it's one of not. I'm not giving you that.
[00:16:25] Speaker C: I accept that because I don't have.
[00:16:27] Speaker B: But I'm not saying it's right. Remember talking about out of control and in control and your emotions. But at the same time, if you want a picture, no, mind you, they probably appreciate that you don't want a picture because you could imagine how many times.
So they invest, they invect a demand, taking a little stroll, coming down the stairs and some mingle element. Oh, God. I take a fresh. I do this, whatever the case may.
[00:16:53] Speaker C: Be, but shorter the picture, the appreciation should still be there, though. You could see.
[00:16:58] Speaker B: Bravo. Something like that. Yes.
[00:17:00] Speaker C: Blessings.
[00:17:01] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:17:01] Speaker C: But how you. And I've seen it physically there for myself. Brian Lara pull up by the doubles man. And he line one time like he cannot get to the. He cannot get his doubles before me.
[00:17:15] Speaker B: In my mind I am like, I didn't make it. Sure.
[00:17:18] Speaker C: This is Brian Lara. What are you talking about? He have other things to do, you understand?
So again, it's back to the self hate, because I feel like it's less about the issue that they have with whoever's the celebrity at hand. It's more about I don't want them to feel that they're better than me.
[00:17:41] Speaker A: That issue with yourself.
[00:17:42] Speaker C: And I can't express that fully.
[00:17:45] Speaker B: Correct. So we want to talk about that. But we had to go to a break. But before we go to the break, I want to ask Mariad all the thing about your zone. All these things are an emotion, right? If you get a bonker and it hurt and you release that cry in front of the public.
[00:18:00] Speaker D: No, the opponent. They come in at you again, the.
[00:18:09] Speaker B: Cameras are the only as well. You don't want to show them the tears. As we talk about. We had to release the emotion. But we take a short break. When we come back, we talk in more about those feelings that we don't let out. They say bad man do cry as per normal. We had a real good conversation during the break. A couple of my brothers had a little cry.
They released their emotion on some of it. Excitement and happiness are the types of conversation that we're having here. And it's really important.
All joke aside, it's really important that we have these conversations because a lot of the issues that we face as men are also because we simply don't know how to release it and get in control. People think you're out of control if you cry, but you're actually in control if you take note that listen, it's okay for me to cry. And I'm not concerned with what somebody else is thinking, because if I'm concerned with what someone else is thinking, they now have control.
So let's sort of kick off with two things. Kindness for weakness.
Whether it's your partner, whether it's your peers, or as you had mentioned Riyadh in the earlier conversation, where you said you wouldn't cry. If I get that bonker, because you don't want your opponents to see that. Now, that is assuming that people take kindness for weakness. And we also, in this particular segment, want to talk about bad man don't cry is a real premise. Whether you see a bad man or not is a premise for why men just don't show emotion in particular cases, or you're told, stop crying does happen.
[00:20:08] Speaker C: I feel that's happened a lot, especially in trinidadian households. What are you crying for?
[00:20:13] Speaker B: You want me to give you something.
[00:20:13] Speaker C: To cry about if you have not heard that as a boy? Something wrong.
Something wrong.
[00:20:21] Speaker B: In Trinidad, it was a mantra. A mantra. They give you something to cry for.
[00:20:25] Speaker C: And also then, now we growing up, we can't express. We know that something is not wrong because in our formative years, we were getting told that something is not wrong for crying. When you're hurt, whether or not it's not physical, because hurt comes emotionally a lot of the times, and I don't know why parents at that time don't understand these kind of things.
Is it that we are liable to make that same mistake with our children?
[00:20:53] Speaker D: You say, now, I keep telling myself we're crying for a shimode boy or something.
[00:20:59] Speaker C: Cry for so you ain't going to.
[00:21:02] Speaker B: Break out at one point, you watch a movie and sort of tear up?
[00:21:07] Speaker D: Yeah.
I different from Niall, I would never show my emotions in front of my family. I would walk away, and that's just me because I have three sisters, my mom, just me and my dad.
As you know, I deal with a situation. No one. No, even with my wife. I would like to go to the.
[00:21:31] Speaker B: Bathroom, but we spoke about that. Is that because, like, I was sharing with you, with my dad, even at the funeral, there was a part of me that didn't want to show emotion. Yes. Admittedly, because of the presence that was out there was being videoed, et cetera. But mostly because I wanted to hold strong for my mom. I needed to be there as that pillar, because I knew if I gave into that, she was already crumbling, she was already falling apart, and I needed to be that pillar there for her.
But is that similar to why you're not showing it or just bad man?
I don't cry in general.
[00:22:17] Speaker D: Me, on a whole. I don't really show my emotions in front of people. I hold a teen and only on a cricket field.
[00:22:24] Speaker C: Why?
[00:22:27] Speaker D: I don't know if it's probably shame.
I don't know.
[00:22:32] Speaker A: I know you don't have enough time to go into a full therapy session, right?
[00:22:36] Speaker B: Yeah. This is manhood.
[00:22:39] Speaker A: I asked why because many times we do things. And actually yesterday I had a little talk on this with some youths. Anytime we do something, and we don't know why that problems for us, because that means we automate in, we're going on autopilot and we're not conscious of what's going on now. So I know we mightn't delve into it now, but I say even to think about it, why exactly now I'm saying you're wrong or you're right to know. But the understanding why is important.
Because even to regulate our emotions, we are to even understand why we're doing what we're doing or how. Because I hear any different things and I realizing as a man is a real balancing act we ought to do in terms of our emotions or no, because the psychologist Jordan Peterson said each man, their aim should be to be the strongest person in the room when your parents die. And he said, wherever path leads you to death, to death is important. And I thought about that and I was listening to what you're saying. And even when you see the situation with your father, right, that could take different forms, that could take the form of somebody crying, or it could take the form of somebody staying as stoic as possible. So understanding to the why, what's going on. Because I think each man would be able to know exactly what's going on inside of them. And if you're unaware, that's where some of the practice come in. Because even you telling your son, telling your son we are crying for. But I realize even listening, there's a dissonance that sometimes happens with our young boys, because in one end we tell them, do whatever you want, be free, right? I just given a quick example.
If a little boy, a son want to pee, you will mp wherever, right? So he don't learn a certain degree of control. But if he expresses emotions openly, we tell him, nah. So the physicality of things we get to express as boys, we learn the teacher, go and run, go and do something, just let it out in terms of physicality. But we tend to be suppressed when it comes emotionally. So that in itself could have a dissonance. So I grew up now thinking, well, maybe I could do whatever I want physically, but emotionally I have to stay a bit stunted.
[00:24:49] Speaker B: I embrace that, but I'm still like, when you say in that emotion, you don't know, why is it that you ask yourself, maybe sometimes I wish I would show more emotion, I wish I would cry or you're sort of happy.
And I'll tell you one of the reasons why I'm asking, I saw my little sister, who I'm very proud of. Through that whole process with dad, she held so strong that the crying that I would have seen would have been sort of when she went away into her bedroom or whatever, and I would come out and there were maybe some signs that she was tearing up, but she held solid in public. Whereas for me, I would say that I felt that I might have broken a tooth. I was clenching my jaw so hard to avoid showing emotion. And I recall when I was given the call, I was actually in the middle of producing, directing, spellbound, and got the call. You were there, Niall. And I left, and I went to the hospital, and of course, he was on his last breath. And we spoke about this before, about regret and being open and showing that emotion and letting your dad know how you feel about him while he's alive and allowing him to be able to tell you. And I remember during that period spending so long in trying to allow him to allow him more life, that at that point, on his last, when I realized that they say the hearing is the last thing to go, that he could hear me, I heard my mom, my sisters, all them saying, it's okay, it's okay, you can go. I couldn't bring myself to it at that point. And when I did, even with the nurses around, it just like a deluge, it just overcame me.
I could have broken all my teeth. It didn't stop, that type of feeling, and I gave into it at that particular point because at that point, it was just zone in to the fact that this is my dad, and I'm now going to tell him the words that I thought I'd never have to say, which was, it's okay to go because I was feeling that you're leaving me. I'm a child again, even at 48, I'm like, how you will leave me. And I'm not releasing him to do that. Not understanding what that was. And it came out. So I'm saying that.
But again, even drink through the whole process, all he wake, all the visits, I was just clenching my jaw because I didn't want to cry. And as you mentioned, but it's supposed to be okay.
Who told us, like, how you said, you don't know where it comes from, who told us that it's not okay?
But where did they lose?
[00:27:44] Speaker D: My sister, my big sister.
When I now started travel and I go to Hagata, she tears cry. So any little thing in front of everyone, she'll cry. My next two sisters, they similar, but they're not as bad as her. So they would tear up.
[00:28:00] Speaker B: And they see where you see they're not as bad as she.
[00:28:05] Speaker D: Real bad. As soon as you say leaving.
But me, now, I don't like people to see me tearing up. That's just me. I don't like that I feel less of a man when people see me tear.
[00:28:19] Speaker B: But where we learn that from Riyadh, where do we learn that?
Because we come back to the second one. We talk about bad Mando cry. But what about mistaken kindness for weakness? Do you think that if you cry, somebody would think, like, you feel weak?
[00:28:34] Speaker C: That makes sense. Well, let me challenge that. One part of not crying is strength, right? So I feel that a lot of times, especially in a moment where someone passed and it is natural to cry, I think that a lot of times, the strength is really giving people permission that they could also cry. So I felt like had you unclench your teeth and show that even a man of my stature could immerse myself in this emotion, that would have a ripple effect. And, yes, you very well know that everybody else would have been crying the minute that you started, but you would have been the ringleader in saying that, hey, I am strong enough to let go of my feelings. And I think that everybody else should follow suit, so to speak. Because a lot of times, there's always be waiting for you. Now, being a patriarchy or family, to be like, you know what, guys is okay? And that's where true strength for me comes in. At least that's how I interpret it. Because, again, back to. I was always told boys shouldn't cry. And I was like, yo, I'm not going through that.
But to go back into quickly about badmando cry, right?
A lot of times, especially in relationships, women, and I'm not saying all women, tend to use our weakness as a tool to hurt us later on.
[00:30:01] Speaker B: I only cut in you there because we come into that.
[00:30:04] Speaker C: Okay?
[00:30:04] Speaker B: That's a whole ready to rock with our one, right? All right, we coming back to that. But I just want to say that just on your earlier point about releasing it, one of the most popular memes in the world is what if anybody could take a guess? One of the most used memes in the world is a picture of Michael Jordan and is used all over. I'm saying, think someone like Riyadh, he bust on crying on the pitch, right? You'd think as much as emotion, they will have maybe a couple people that will be like, oh, my God, empathize. But they have many out there. Total apathy are not going to be, you know, Trinity wanting. Trinity is real creative one.
Before that game done, before the tear hit the ground, you know, there's a set of all kind of what kind of Amazon warrior this man is, boy.
Exactly.
I don't think that, for example, if I broke down at that point, like I said, it's being videoed. There are pictures. Not that that is the thought that's going through my mind at the time, but I'm saying to you that there are persons that after the fact or even during may have that moment, but then you got a bridge like boy of the place.
[00:31:49] Speaker A: Maybe that's fine in a robot because maybe part of being a man and keeping that emotion, that strength is being able through the people making fun of you, you're still able to show that emotion. Because when I was thinking about Ronaldo, Cristiano, Ronaldo, Cristiano just cry all the time, right? And they have memes on him making fun of him. But also he get respect because of his passion, because we assume that he cry and because of how much he feel for the game, right? So I say in the same way, when we show an emotion is for us to stay strong or stay true to ourselves, even truly making fun of it, because the fact is we feel in it now. The fact is we do feel it. And I think it's because of the suppression that it sometimes comes out, usually with diluge, right. It comes out in that because sometimes we get sad is one tear would have come out if we let out, but after a while it just tears that one tear, build up, build up, and then we release it in that manner.
[00:33:00] Speaker B: But as you said, you spoke about strength there, so we need to take another break. The irony is we're coming back to Nile rare intergal. Basically, we look at the tourboard. Women do like soft man.
[00:33:30] Speaker D: From the break. Manhood is the topic. Well, interesting topic here. Now, my boy here is rearing for this topic.
[00:33:41] Speaker A: Woman do like soft man.
[00:33:45] Speaker C: It's always a one, by the way.
But thank you for coming back. Coming back like that.
They don't.
Well, at least the same way that men were trained not to express their emotions, women have been trained to not want men who express their emotions literally because I'm sure that any household sisters have seen their mother tell his son, their brother do cry. So why would that woman grow up to want a man who crying?
[00:34:20] Speaker A: Listen, when you say in this, right, I mean, doing actual research, my own personal relationships, and even seeing clients, especially couples because of this confusion. Remember I was talking about dissonance growing up with boys, that confusion. Even women confused because you're saying women will want a man to show emotion, but then a woman would say in the same breath and again, anything from him, like, you know, feel anything. And then sometimes literally do things to elicit emotion from the man. And then when he expressed the emotion, were you going on so far? Right.
You understand a good occurs day.
[00:35:05] Speaker B: Release it, release emotion. If you want a curse.
[00:35:10] Speaker A: The f top kind of relationships we have because of this, whether men should release, whether we shouldn't release. And I think the conclusion is going back to what regulate.
We should regulate. We should be able to regulate our emotions. We should let it out. And whether or not women trained, men trained that way. Just like I was talking about Ronaldo just now. No matter what, Michael Jordan would he crime you, no matter what, if you feel to let it. And that comes with, of course, understanding who you are as a man and being able to stand up. You know what I feel to cry. Yeah, cry, baby boy. Ting, ding, ding, ding, ding. All right, I will cry next time. I'll cry louder. Just being able to be okay with whatever emotions you feel at that time.
[00:35:57] Speaker B: If you cry next time, are you now doing it out of intent to make a point, to regulate not necessarily that emotion, but that impression people have of you. So again, we coming back to the fact that you are out of control because you're now giving control to someone because you're no concern with what their impression is. Because if crying is not in that particular instance, you may have let it out based on that passion. I mean, I have a different stance.
As I said, as Manchester United men, that's where Cristiano Ronaldo first won his ballador. But at the same time, a lot of times, his emotion is not necessarily always out of total passion in a positive way.
A lot of times it's a lot of self and his importance and what he wants to achieve and those different types of things. But that's a whole other conversation. But I'm saying that if it is that you're now saying, okay, well, I've cried now and I'm going to keep crying now. So people becomes a thing.
[00:37:01] Speaker A: Then again, balance too much anything.
[00:37:05] Speaker B: Well, balance, we're going to regulation.
[00:37:07] Speaker A: Is that actually, I would say maybe you should even do some of that because practicing it, you'll get better. Practicing not necessarily crying. Practicing releasing emotion. Practicing regulating emotion. The more you practice it, the better you'll get at it. So if it is you realize, you know what? Two tier is good enough for me. You understand? Die your balance. A ball every month good for me dies your balance. But instead of simply keeping it in, because I know for sure that's not healthy. For sure that's not healthy. So in terms of every man watching, everybody watching, practice, practice releasing emotion. And again, we use in cryer, but releasing emotion. Don't have to be crying, folks. Releasing emotion could be going and take our run. You release something, right? And because we as men, physical, if you notice or pay attention to sometimes how men we release emotions is based on your body movement. You would do something with your hands, you would feel your body do something. Even there are many men when they're talking and emotion hit, you would see, like, just let change because that's the energy moving in your body. So being aware of it, you see.
[00:38:20] Speaker B: That with the prime minister, when he ready to say something, you give you a little adjustment there, you know?
[00:38:25] Speaker A: And that's more male thing than a female thing. Because, one, it could be nature because of how we process things. Two, it could be nurture, how we were trained, because we were trained not to emote like this, but to do something physically. So you would see people shaking the legs, doing something like that, maybe even biting them. But everybody might have their own little tick. So being aware of it is important. And practice it. Practice the regulation of it.
[00:38:50] Speaker C: Well, just a touchback on you saying that you don't need to cry to show your emotions, right? And I felt like just talking to your partner about something honest. That bothering you?
[00:39:02] Speaker A: Honest.
[00:39:02] Speaker C: Most men don't. Most men any like, we shoulder so much issues and drama in our life. And again, we want to seem like we protecting our peoples because I don't want them to worry. I go and beat him on and I will worry about it. But does silliness to me at least, right? I like, yo, if I have a problem and I have my partner with me, she's supposed to be my other half who's supposed to help me solve whatever issues I go into. What's the point of me not using my best? And most of I don't agree with.
[00:39:33] Speaker B: The other half, but we'll go into another.
[00:39:35] Speaker C: I mean, there's a balance in life, and they have the male side and the female side, which brings the balance. So there is a half regardless.
[00:39:45] Speaker B: I just want to touch on only because I know you're talking about yang and yang and alpha and the omega and all these things, right? But if you read like Khalil Gibran which I'm sure you know of, where he spoke about two people being whole and what you do is instead of being a half, it means that you're missing something. Whereas two persons need to come together as two wholes in order to have another experience in terms of to take it another level. But we get very philosophical and so on. We back to women who like soft man.
[00:40:16] Speaker C: So back to the I have this greatest asset in my pocket here. And men don't take this opportunity to really say how they feel about anything.
Men can't come to the gill and be like, yo, baby, I love feeling x or this is how blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And actually use that opportunity that if you feel like crying, if the world was your boss bally of daddy, cry about it. Cry about it with a girl.
But most men would feel that. I don't mind guilt to see me in such a vulnerable space because she wouldn't be as I'd prefer her to be, you know, San Joa Satan. Can I use the.
[00:41:01] Speaker B: Sorry, I'm sorry. There was a moment here, Nile denial and took it to.
[00:41:08] Speaker C: And it is what it is. That's how I speak. And that's why sometimes Robert does have the paddle. Right. But the point is that is always be at the back of our mind. And I feel that when if that's the thought that you have, that is not the person that you're supposed to be with.
If you in that space that I am worried that she galdo like soft man, then that's not the guild for you.
[00:41:34] Speaker A: Personally, I actually agree with you because I've been back and forth with this and even for years. What man supposed to do in that situation? You're supposed to keep it in. Is it a biological thing that when a woman see a cry, they automatically feel that something wrong with you? And I've heard actual people preach this, but I've realized none of us perfect. So if you want to say what a healthy woman is or what a healthy man is, I don't know if any of us ever perfect in that sense. But if you as a man in your relationship feel that sometimes you cannot or you're afraid to express something, some emotion, whatever it is, then something wrong.
If you are afraid to do it, something wrong.
[00:42:17] Speaker B: And on both instances, do you actually feel whether you cry, whether you watch a chick flick? Because I've had instances where I have seen wifey tear up watching a show or something happens and you decide to tear up.
We talk about men sometimes don't want to show emotion but women also don't want to show that emotion because they sometimes, as we spoke about it, in certain instances where they're in survivor mode and they feel that they have to.
In some of the other women that we've spoken to or had dialogue with to get some research for the show where even though you're with her partner, that woman, if that woman is not feeling that she's getting everything she needs to get from that man in terms of feels that strength, which could be this uniman crying and thinking, mistaken that kindness for weakness. And as a result of that, she's in survive mode. Like she has to take care of business. And if she's in taking care of business, as we spoke about the reverse roles where women are feeling a sense of more masculine energy, again, another conversation that we had on manhood, speaking about that masculine energy. So therefore, they don't want to show their partner that they're breaking down and they hold it in. And as a result, you have two persons who are not showing that emotion, who are listening but not necessarily hearing part of the conversation and moving on. I remember a partner telling me he eventually decided to tell his woman, had a long, real deep conversation with her for the first time. They keep saying he doesn't communicate. And he opened himself up and he mentioned something about a woman that he spoke to in a bar. And that is all the woman, she stopped hearing.
Let us back up here. This woman in the bar, and he was just like, really? Like, you're not even asking yourself the why? Why did I feel? What did you have to do with all of this?
[00:44:29] Speaker A: Well, that could be for the topic whether men and women could handle the truth.
[00:44:34] Speaker B: And that is one of the topics coming up. But I know we're near to closing off this conversation here today. And we always say that manhood as an episode in terms of timing on tv and on digital finishes, but the conversation will always continue.
[00:44:49] Speaker C: Sure.
[00:44:49] Speaker B: And ria, I'd like you to sort of give your closing thoughts, and one of those is basically how you said about not showing your partner or anybody that you cry, but if they cry in front of you, what is that reaction in terms of that emotion and then your general thoughts on the conversation today.
[00:45:15] Speaker D: So because I grew up with three sisters, I know well, since I kind of understand woman emotions most of the time, one of the toughest period is when my wife was pregnant with our first child. They go through those ups and downs, they hormones. And one day we were driving home and I just touch her on her shoulder, and she's like lash out and you don't know how I feeling and tears are looking. I was like, why do I mean, I just touch her. I like to make joke fun around.
Are you shocked? And then on each room she was staying by her mom that time she come with the car, open the door when she took her keys. So I thought that we vexed with each other. And she was like, so you're not walking back out in my car.
[00:46:13] Speaker C: But you know, I shocked.
[00:46:16] Speaker D: I don't know what to do. But it was the first child I started understanding what to go wrong, how would she behave.
But I could go to my wife and tell her anything. She's that understand it, although I don't, but I could. And she would want me to come and tell her anything.
I could cry in front of her. Because at times, a couple of times that I did because of situation.
And she was very understanding and she would cry in front of me.
So we have that kind of relationship. Even though she want me to communicate more. But that's not me. I kind of keep everything inside as you're saying.
[00:46:55] Speaker A: Why?
[00:46:56] Speaker D: But I don't know.
That's just me. I like my own space most of the times.
[00:47:01] Speaker B: So in Afghanistan during that situation, you didn't know no emotion. Come on, it's only the four of us here.
[00:47:08] Speaker D: I wasn't scared. I wasn't scared at all at that time. Because the security was tops 100%. It's only when the bomb went off and the whole place rock is like. You only see these things in movies, but actually experience it. And the way it sound, the kaboom and the whole place had a shake. And you see we get earthquake here. But that was like a earthquake. You see no building glass, they're shattering and coming out.
And she was pregnant at that time as well.
[00:47:36] Speaker B: So with that embrace when you all saw each other, no waterworks. I try to get to the point when you had that moment.
[00:47:44] Speaker D: I got an accident two years ago in New York. And when she came to see me there a few tears and know I probably am living a second life. People say they live a second life. The way it know this topic I think is the first time I sit down with men and have this topic discussing this kind of topic. I could tell any national team Telamani cry in front of gal. He laugh at you. That's just how it is. Nobody want to shed tears in front of the other half and that kind of thing. So it's interesting, it kind of opened up my eyes to what we should not say should, but what we should experience. And it's not a bad thing. It's not a good or bad thing. It's just who we are. And we need to open up a little more as men. I think, Trini, men, to open up that kind of self esteem, kind of pride kind of thing.
And I say, not going to cry.
[00:48:54] Speaker B: What you're seeing there is very apt. And my point just to touch on that was simply to be to say that whether it be myself guilty of it or whether it's somebody else, and you have a moment and you cry.
The issue and the negativity is with me.
The problem then is with me, it's some sort of insecurity or issue that we have as men, that we can look at other men and think that you're so what kind of mama? And all of these conversations that come out. And that's what we need to change.
[00:49:26] Speaker A: I agree with you because your feelings are valid.
That's the point. Your feelings are valid. Even if it highlights a weakness, quote unquote, or a shortcoming or something you have to work on. It's better to be highlighted as soon as possible so you could work on it. So keeping it inside. I have heard many men even went to the grief sometimes the ailing and the hurting. And instead of letting it out, right, they keep it inside. And even their children. I never know what daddy was thinking. I never know what he was going through.
And that what we hold him back could actually help your son, your daughter, another generation, even a stranger, a stranger see a cry and that expression, do something positive for them. So I understand the prevailing sentiment about men, quote unquote, not supposed to show emotion. But we're here to do something different. That's why we hear manner to learn something different, do something different and be better as men.
[00:50:31] Speaker C: One statement to the ladies in particular. So look into all the ladies at home right now, right?
You all train your men to lie to you. Literally every time a man comes to you and wants to tell you the truth. And you use that opportunity to pay attention to the wrong things, use it against him later on, make him feel small when he being vulnerable. That is just a moment that he's going to register to lie to you in the future. So pay attention to that.
[00:51:07] Speaker B: Well said. Well said.
I'm short for words, believe it or not, just to say that to everyone, the strength is in being in control. And if being in control is releasing that emotion when your body is saying, this is part of the process, whether it be of healing whether it be a situation of happiness, whatever that emotion is, that is a strength. That's not a soft man. The soft man is the person who's out of control, who is holding in those feelings, who's more concerned with what somebody else is thinking. So just let that just to touch on what Niall said and what Riyadha shared and what Johansey shared. It's really been another thought provoking. A very inspiring conversation. Again, I thank you, gents. I love the fact that every time I sit down here, I learn so much more. That's true. And I hope that everyone listening to manhood has taken something away, that we're all responsible and to just be in control of emotion. And if it's one thing you leave here with, is to know that it's okay to cry.
