What do men want?

[00:00:05] Speaker A: So thanks for joining us for another conversation on manhood. This one, there's a lot of dialogue that was taking place just before we hit that record button. So I want to make sure that you guys are in on this topic. It's a bit off topic from the subjects that we would have picked going into the season, but it's a very important one. Some of the feedback that we've been getting is that we need to have some younger people on the set. And initially I took Ombridge to that because I was like, I'm a young guy. I feel young. I think I look young. Don't mind the salt and pepper. All that in know women don't fool. Know the salt and pepper is experience. So let me get straight into it. I have with me today Saris Geshard announcing training a good friend, Kimron, aka crazy legs influencer producer, good partner, Niall Royal McNish. He's royal. And the topic today with these gentlemen, gentlemen, is based on being single and in being the fact that the three are single, not necessarily disengaged. I said single. What do men really want? What do boys really want? What does the male population and Tobago in general really want? And that's what we're really here to discuss. So Zarius is in for us for the first half of the show. And then, of course, Johanse will join us as our behavior change consultant to give us some more perspective on the ultimate conversation outside of what do men really want when we start to speak about respect. So let me get jump straight into it, Zarius. What do the younger generation really want? What do you want? What does a man want? [00:02:10] Speaker B: I mean, it's tough to speak for a whole generation, but to me, I know personally, I don't have any immediate plans or long term plans for relationships or anything like that, strictly because. [00:02:25] Speaker A: To. [00:02:26] Speaker B: Me personally, I've seen so many people older than me, 1015 years older than me, go through so many things on so many levels, whether it be divorce or just toxic relationships in general. And it really put things into perspective for me, growing up and seeing all of that, because I've seen so many toxic relationships. So to grow up and see all of that, it put things into perspective for me personally for what I wanted. And what I want probably doesn't really align with what the typical 23 year old really wants in 2023. It kind of boils down to me just focusing on building my wallet and building my mind and spirit growing as a person before I could even consider becoming one with somebody else. [00:03:08] Speaker A: Right. But that's on relationships. And that sounded really good for your first dig at being on manhood. But let's be real now, right? What does he really want? Several girls. You don't want a parrot on a stick. You want to drive. You want to drive that luxury car. You want to travel. [00:03:29] Speaker B: I have read plenty of trust issues, honestly speaking. [00:03:32] Speaker A: Right. [00:03:33] Speaker B: And coming up in a more liberal generation, when it comes to relationships, when it comes to sexual activity, there's less of an importance. I've seen recently, at least on the love aspect of it. [00:03:49] Speaker A: Right? [00:03:50] Speaker B: That's true. It's more just an action. No. Than anything. Right? A lot of people say I am an old soul because they think I'm old school, because I look at sexual activity as making love, as two souls becoming one. [00:04:07] Speaker A: Ladies. [00:04:13] Speaker B: Come on. [00:04:15] Speaker C: Number. [00:04:17] Speaker A: It's no one who's. If you're not going to put your Instagram hand, I want to cuddle. Really? [00:04:28] Speaker B: There's two sides to that coin, right? So it has that side of it for me because to me is a lack of options when you're that type of person, right. And then they have the other side of me that is just like Jedi. No. Start working. And recently we had a $200 trend in Trinidad and Tobago. But to me, I looked at people's reactions to that. Men and women across the island were talking about, man, $200 is plenty or $200 is not enough. And I'm just sitting here, I'm like, I can't even afford to take myself on a date. [00:05:02] Speaker A: So. Instagram handle taken down right away? No. I appreciate you being real. And what it comes down to, let me see if we could contextualize some of it here. Is that the Gen Z, the younger generations that we're talking about, it's not that sex isn't important or it's trivialized. It's just not as important as maybe previous generations. [00:05:28] Speaker B: It's not on that pedestal anymore. [00:05:29] Speaker A: Not on that pedestal. So therefore, if it happens, if your number is high, of which we're going to be speaking about on another episode of conversation with manhood, if your number, say, 2030, it matters not. That's not what you're looking at. What connection do we have now? What are we building and where do we go from here? So maybe more polyamorous relationships? I don't know. I mean, Niall, you know you want to speak to. Sure. So is that what you're mean? [00:05:58] Speaker B: It's not for me personally. [00:05:59] Speaker A: Right. I know you want me. [00:06:02] Speaker B: I've always looked at the whole polyamory thing because I've heard Niles talk, I've seen the episodes, and Niles talked about polyamory. And I'm just sitting here and I'm just like, that's real things to juggle, boy. Just on a daily basis, I struggle to talk to one person, and you're talking about five, six people and making sure everybody gets shopping, equal attention and love and activity. And I just sit in here, I'm like, man, like I said, you have to be built for that in terms of polyamory. You have to see life and love as a suit in weight to be okay with saying, yeah, man, I'll give you some love, and I'll give you some love on Sunday, and then she will get some on Tuesday, or no love at all, or no love at. [00:06:47] Speaker A: All, or no love at all. It's understanding. [00:06:48] Speaker D: Well, first of all, it was never polyamory, right? I still want one wife. I just want to have co parents. [00:06:56] Speaker B: Right? [00:06:56] Speaker D: But that's a whole different topic. But I feel what happening now, at least in the younger generation, which I will fit myself into it, right. [00:07:04] Speaker A: Is that you're going there. [00:07:05] Speaker D: Okay. There's a level of needed selfishness that is happening with men long time. When a man gets successful, his first thing is, I want to take care of a woman and a family. Right? When a woman gets successful, her first thought would be, I don't need a man. So you see, there's a difference in the minute that they make it, right. But now what I see, which is, again, back needed selfish selfishness, is that when a man get his coin, he'd be like, yeah, what? I need to take care of myself first. I need to enjoy my freedom in this plane of success. And then if it is I find somebody of my ilk that I feel that could share my success, then we could move forward. Because I bet you if you had multiple $200 in your pocket, you would have been pumping. You'd have been shopping, you'd have been pumping. You would have been like, you'd have been a susie, a sarah, was he seen? You'd have been flying up, doing things. [00:08:06] Speaker B: Not to cut you off. But I don't think, honestly speaking, because of who I am, I just am laser focused on if I have that 200 by two, by three, I turn that into 1000 I'm looking at. Okay, cool, let's make it 10,000. I'm not stopping to look at your roses and sit down and say, all right, cool. Let me take a little bit to movie tongue and spend all $60 on a date. You understand? [00:08:33] Speaker A: Okay, so you believe that? I remember seeing a meme where they said, if you make the money, the women will follow. If you follow the women, the money will disappear. I do believe. I'm not putting women down to that's what they aspire to be. No, but there is some credibility in what you're saying. I mean, the men of the past, when you work hard, you're thinking, wow, I can look for that mate now. I can provide for my children. I can do things. I can get a house, be a man, do things that men, a man be things that men generally aspire to be. We spoke about sugar daddies at one point, but that, again, is another conversation. And if you want to know more about that, look at the other episodes. But now we are saying that that might be the focus where the woman may still have back in the day and now they may still look at that as I make my money, I don't need a man. That in itself, I'm pausing because I'm like, oh, my gosh, that just come out my mouth. I mean, how many people are going to target the fact that I just said that? [00:09:44] Speaker D: But as you. Reality. [00:09:46] Speaker C: Reality. [00:09:46] Speaker A: No. [00:09:47] Speaker C: So if it is that a woman making her own money and she's independent, because that is the slogan, but men can't see that at all. Like I always say, women make their money, the queen independent, but we can't say king independent. [00:10:00] Speaker B: Right. [00:10:01] Speaker C: So all well and fine, but let me just say that we go for someone and drop our standards. [00:10:06] Speaker A: Is that a new thing, though, what you just said there? I wasn't aware of that. Is it like toxic masculinity or man's planning? Is it another thing that come up, masculinity? [00:10:14] Speaker C: Is that a man will obviously want to be a man? [00:10:17] Speaker A: No, I'm talking about in terms of terms that were coined. Is the queen part of it, one of those recent terms that are going around? [00:10:24] Speaker C: Well, most people, for myself, I could speak. Obviously, you want somebody to bill with and to get that, then you have to have understanding in 50 50 shares or whatever it is that you want to go forward with, which you're not going to get either or, because it will have like a poor struggle somewhere in between there. And this is where the male testosterone. [00:10:43] Speaker D: Bravado, bravado. [00:10:44] Speaker C: Dominance will be like. We make certain decisions. You can make your own thing, Gail, we could do this thing together, but at the same time, and all, too, is that we get in it, pull from us slowly but surely from under our feet. And if we just say, okay, you drop your standards and you want to build with somebody or whatsoever, then the probabilities of that is even lower because everybody don't want to build anymore because of the time and investment. They want somebody self made immediately. [00:11:09] Speaker D: That is true. [00:11:10] Speaker C: And if you want somebody self made immediately, then how much could you trust this person for long term that they are writing for you, or are they writing for your career? [00:11:19] Speaker A: So you spoke there again, you happen to mention the word trust. Zarius mentioned the word trust being trust issues. So I realized trust is really top of mind. And I want to hone in once again to the topic of today, how we view things. All of these conversations might be a reasoning as to why more and more certain fabrics of our moral standard or compass from previous incarnations or previous generations might be slowly but surely being torn or ripped or moved away. [00:11:56] Speaker D: I would say evolve. [00:11:59] Speaker A: But an older generation, it would be seen as torn or the fabric is no longer there. But to the younger generation, like you said, it's evolving. So I come back to it. Not just that you guys are younger than me, or certainly Zarius is part of the Gen Z. What do men want? And being single men, what are you waiting on? This is not necessarily to go into a relationship. I'm too out of life. [00:12:29] Speaker C: Well, for me, working for everything that I wanted was just wanting a better life, stability, bill free. So that requires more of your skill, self worth, determination to get it done, to retire your family. That is that period. But for long term men, as for myself, I would say obviously we want to carry on our lineage. I want a little me running around the place. True, most men will want that. They want that. We want to carry on that. But at the same time, and all too like him carrying some of our older generation morals, is that we don't want a broken home. We don't want each child to grow up broken. I think that men right now would rather give their all to have a family life to ensure that they have a proper family. [00:13:17] Speaker A: You think? [00:13:18] Speaker C: I think so. [00:13:19] Speaker A: Right now, there's so many children out there. I know the conversation came up at one point about the reason so many children don't have their father around is sometimes as a result of the mother locking off the father and not wanting the father in that child's life. But there are many other instances where the father themselves don't want any part of around the child. [00:13:39] Speaker C: Well, we don't call them men. At the end, if you can't be there for your child, any man, they will be reliable. If you can't put that and take care of that, then we separate immediately. Well, like they say, I reproducing, I'm making numbers in this world and not growing men up. And I think that's something that we gain happening right now. Broken home, separation, too many people losing the value of family. And this is where it comes down to women, I would say sometimes, but they control the sex wherever it goes. And men would love purity more knowing that a we notice if a woman say self control, you ain't getting nothing until six months, one year or whatsoever. But this girl real nice, real thing, you as a man, I tell yourself, I will hold out. You know what, she's a nice person. I will hold out. [00:14:31] Speaker A: You're holding out with her or you're. [00:14:32] Speaker C: Holding. [00:14:36] Speaker A: Because let's be real, you're holding out and saying, hey, I hear, I understand we're coming. I'm not pressuring you, but while you're not pressuring right, you're dipping. [00:14:48] Speaker C: Yeah, but that is men. And I think about who is primitive. Inmates at the end of it have no control over hormones, that we need to just go out there and be like, yeah, boy, I feel good because we have to release that. Women on the other hand, I would always say more evolved because they have the power to control that. But let me just say, you know, this female saying, but this girl real nice, she just knew real good everything she run into saying, hey, nine months, I real like, yeah, hold off. But let me just say this girl who's watching our one and you know, your cartoon, she has a long term because why you're getting it. [00:15:27] Speaker A: So if I get it, I wanted to answer that, but we're going to take a short break. We're not going to have much dialogue because I really want you out there to hear a lot of the conversation that happens behind the scenes. I want it now in front of the camera to finish off on that topic. But again, I still don't feel I have the nugget as to what single men really want. And again, to speak about this respect and feeling disrespected. And I want to hear more from Zarius as well. So we're taking a short break and coming back with some of this juicy conversation that seems to somehow go on to relationships when I just want to know what else you want. [00:16:29] Speaker D: We're back with manhood, as always. In between the break, we had an intense conversation happening and we had to stop the conversation just so that we could include you guys back into the mix now. So where were we? What we was actually discussing before, well, in between the break was they wanted to get down to what single men wanted. Right. And I feel like the answer is really simple. Personally, for me, one, we don't want to make the mistakes of our parents. I find that amazing. We saw the errors that they made and we don't want to make them. And two, we just want to enjoy our life. [00:17:10] Speaker A: Enjoyment. Is that you don't want responsibility? Is it commitment issues? [00:17:16] Speaker D: I don't want to say commitment issues because I still want to be committed. It's just not any time frame that most people would have deemed me to want my commitment. So you're supposed to be ready for marriage by time you enter into tea. That's how it used to be. But now men want to play in their tuties. So israeli, to be honest, is a stunted maturity, is what I feel a lot of men want. They want to play a little bit longer than they need to or should based on society's needs. [00:17:52] Speaker A: And I just want to put into context, play a bit longer, just like women are working longer and their careers are going longer, and they're finding other ways, through biology, through technology, et cetera, to say, freeze the egg. They're being forward thinking, but at the same time they're telling themselves, I want to be able to, in my 40s or late 40s, into probably sometimes even 50, still have the option to really fulfill for myself. So it's not selfish. It's probably acknowledging more self worth as to what you want to then because of that biological clock now that technology is allowing it to then say, okay, at this stage in my life, I'm going to settle. And I know women or people a lot of times have an issue with that word settle and compromise. But what I'm trying to get from you is it that you're saying that men as well want to play longer but still have that vision that you want a family, you want that picket fence, you want children, you want a dog? Or is it that you not on any of that? Is that even a thought? Is that you feel that you really have, that everyone has that need to spread their seed? [00:19:04] Speaker D: I actually think that most. But I'm sure that you want a family, right? [00:19:08] Speaker A: No. [00:19:10] Speaker B: Wow. [00:19:12] Speaker D: Okay. [00:19:16] Speaker B: To continue what you were saying there, right again. I kind of grew up being educated a certain way, right? So I grew up with teachers telling me, look at the world. We take any resources, we polluted, we need less people, we're overpopulated. Right. So I'm looking at the will. And you're like, I need to add more. I'm looking at the society that I would have to bring a child into and the responsibility because a lot of people, I feel, have kids. Me personally, I feel like they have kids for selfish reasons. They want to have a kid because you want to have a kid. [00:19:50] Speaker C: True. [00:19:50] Speaker B: Right. The kid, in any scenario, would never be the guilty person. The kid didn't ask to be here. The kid didn't ask to be born. You had the kid. Right. It happens. Actions occur and you end up with your end result nine months later. So you had said something about trust and commitment issues. Right. And not wanting to repeat the mistakes of our parents. And I definitely agree with that. So I strongly agree with that in a way, because you grow up, the divorce rate in every country across the world, especially in the Caribbean, in the states and Canada, everywhere, has grown. Right. And crazy legs was talking about earlier where sometimes you put two years, three years into a relationship and you feel, okay, maybe you're ready to take that next step and make that commitment and say, okay, that person should be my partner for the next half of my life, for the next quarter, three quarters of my life, till death. Till death to us part. Right. And I find a problem sometimes looking at that way of thinking and saying, okay, I'm going to meet somebody and I'm going to be with them forever. Forever is a really long time. During COVID my grandmother passed away. And it put mortality into perspective for me, right. Because, you know, death is always looming over every person. But I feel like when you reach a certain age, whether it be you lose somebody that's close to you in life and it puts it into perspective where, right, it's going to happen to you eventually, at some point, but, you know, you're living on borrowed time. You have one life to live. You only live once. Right? So I used to have that opinion of, yeah, man, one, I'm going to grow till we gray with this person or whatever. And then I turned around and I looked at it. I'm just being like, that's one life. Who is that special in the world that you want to marry? I started looking around because I like to observe things plenty. So I started looking around at my surroundings, at people in my age range. I started looking at what my brethrens were doing. I started looking at what cousins were doing, girl cousins, guy cousins, all of them. And I started observing of how their relationships were, if they were even happy to begin with, if they were happy by themselves, if they were happier by themselves, or if they were happier with. [00:22:19] Speaker A: This person, or what did they understand when they went into that relationship? What did they understand that they were getting out of it. I listened to this podcast once where the male and the female were having a conversation, and the male went into it with thinking, commitment, and he knew, okay, this is longevity, and it's part of what a relationship is. The woman went into it with expectation, and the moment that expectation dropped, and the vows would have been for better or worse, and it started to get to that period of worse. It's like I didn't account for this. I wasn't expecting this part of it. Sickness and in health, I'm not up for that. And it's how honest and true you are to yourself when you're giving that commitment as to whether you can really handle it and what you expect out of that person. I had a conversation with a friend of mine just a couple of days ago, and one of the things was that in the relationship, what she liked about the person was that he made her laugh. Well, that's a lot women like somebody who can make you laugh, of course. But does that mean that the chemistry, the physical chemistry, was that chemistry there? The answer was no. So the moment that laughter dissipated, right? Or the fellow became a bit demanding in other things, or felt a bit cock show about himself. It's like who you feel you are. [00:23:46] Speaker B: So the dynamic change. [00:23:47] Speaker A: The dynamic change. Like, you don't make me laugh as much or no, you feel you're something. Because to her it's like, well, you're not that strapping man that I really have attraction to, or may have had attraction to, or is always out there. I want you for laughter. It's not funny that you're broke. Yeah. So it comes down to really and truly, I've always said that maybe vows should change now to I will always give you my truth, because like you said, the younger generation or that would forever. And even in jobs, the fact is, a six month turnover, this job for life type thought process where people ascribe to is no longer there. But again, because I know we have to take another short break, and I want to thank Isarias for being here and being honest. And of course, we're going to invite Johansei in to give the psychology behind a lot of the behaviors and the why commitment issues or resolve, just to really your sort of final thoughts. Well, final for this conversation, and clarify maybe not just your perspective, but what again, and I'm going at it because I still don't feel I have it. What does a young man want out of life at this point? And I'm glad that you said that it's not always to have children to procreate. It's not always to see yourself, because that in a way could be selfish, you could be being selfless or you could be being. It might be admirable that you're telling yourself, I don't want to add to the comments that's out there. I don't want to add to the seven point something billion when the planet was only designed for two point something billion. There are many conversations around those things. Again, it depends what angle you're going to go. Whether you're young. Whether you're young. Sorry, let me just. [00:25:56] Speaker B: So definitely thinking about what I want from life is probably balance, as you said just now, yin and yang. [00:26:07] Speaker A: To. [00:26:07] Speaker B: Live just a balanced life on all levels. Whether it be spiritually, financially, emotionally, to try and get better in touch with how I feel about certain things on a daily basis, on a yearly basis going forward, what my plans are really, to tell you the truth, honestly, I have no immediate plans for a relationship. Like I said earlier, definitely kids might probably be out of the question just because, again, raising another person is a very big responsibility when you can't figure yourself out, when you don't know who you are. I'm not saying I don't know who I am, but I mean, a lot of people who have kids don't. A lot of people have the ability to be a mother and a father, but not a mommy and a daddy. So I heard a lot of that this past father's day when a lot of people were given praise to everyone can be, every man can be a father, but not every man could be a daddy. [00:27:06] Speaker A: Correct. [00:27:07] Speaker B: So it put things into perspective for me when I used to think about if I'm ready, because you have activities, you go to a party, you go to a lime, you meet a gill. Sometimes things happen, right. If you don't protect yourself accordingly. A lot of the times a kid pops out nine months later, conversation we. [00:27:29] Speaker A: Had about just the tip. [00:27:31] Speaker B: Yeah, sometimes, whether you want to or not, whether your religious beliefs are abortion or no abortion, whether anything on that spectrum comes into play, sometimes you just have to man up, take responsibility and sit down and raise a child might not always be an option, but it is what your life turns into sometimes when you make certain decisions and it comes down to what decisions you make now. [00:27:59] Speaker A: So just to put into context, guys, I know we have to go to the break and I want to hear from crazy. And Niall, with regards to is it then that we're seeing the younger generation now are living more in the moment, so it's not like they don't have a plan. Their focus is on the past is gone. Past is prologue. Right. The future is not sure the present is a gift. Right. And so are we living in the moment and just enjoying what that presents? [00:28:32] Speaker D: I think it's less pressure from the parents because where every generation had passed, used to take on the traditions of the home. And as the generations, as giga younger shift in, that pressure becomes less and less and less and less. So now when it comes to. What was your generation name again? Gen Z. Crazy. Right. His parents are pressuring him to. Pressuring him to have a family, and. [00:29:05] Speaker A: You need to have a good job. [00:29:06] Speaker D: And get a wife at 23. My father was married at 23 with his first child. I can't even fathom that you understand. And you're 23 now. [00:29:18] Speaker B: Yeah. Put things into perspective when you really. [00:29:20] Speaker D: I actually think so. Less pressure coming down through the generations. So when you say the older generation looking at the fabric being torn, it's not that. It's more like they would keeping up these stitches, any fabric, to keep it together. Crazy. [00:29:36] Speaker C: Just to add overall of this whole thing, I think where it is that we lost our way along the way is that men forget how to be men. Or let me just say that we don't have a community for men or course to be a man. And that's something that we need to find back to help build society or understand men or help them mentally, because certain things that we'll come across in life. [00:30:07] Speaker A: And I wanted to finish your point. I just want to make sure that we're on course here. When you say they've lost their way, is it that we are saying that the old way was the way? Well, if we bring back the old way. [00:30:18] Speaker C: The old way, for example, like we were saying, 23 year old, your dad had hit, like, around that, right? But your dad raised a good son, was able to have a household, was able to do all these things with the economy back in that time, which shows that somehow he had a formula to be a man, to provide, to make sure everything was good, my son get his education and so on and so forth. And I think majority of us have that benefit from that generation, and we lost that somewhere along the line because why? We get too partyish, we get too much our spree. And like you were saying earlier, men in the titties. Yeah. [00:30:55] Speaker B: Why? [00:30:56] Speaker C: Because wealth or stability is harder to find in your 20s or your teens, but you gain it from the last 20s they are to your titties. So you say, hey, I want to enjoy this money. No, I want to go here. I want to buy that a good. [00:31:13] Speaker A: Time to take a pause. A lot to take in there. Maybe a lot of some conversation behind the scenes because I'm not too sure fully ascribed to what you're saying about always and new ways because things change as you go along and what the older generation may have had, they wouldn't have had access to social media, cell phones, the access to planes, to cheaper flights. All of these things make communication. So it's good and bad because now you open to a lot. They're the negative sides to it, but they're also the positive side for me. I remember being having a pen pal and ICQ and things like that was my only connection when I was living in Jerry. So things are different. Correct. And the art of doing those things have been lost, but things have progressed at the same time. [00:32:03] Speaker C: Writing a letter, I hear you remember writing a letter. [00:32:08] Speaker A: I do. I don't know if I could write that much again because I'm always typing. But we take a short break. Zarius, thank you so much for being honest, for being here and giving us your perspective. So once again, a lot of really good conversation. Johansey, glad you're back with us. I know you took in a lot of the conversation that Zarius brought to the fore as a young person. And I know we are young people ourselves. People don't get caught up with the white in our beards, et cetera. But I want to take this segment and use this segment to really now focus on, hone in. We heard a lot of variations and different ideas as to what men really want. But does it come down to what men really want is respect? And let us talk about, we hear a lot of times people say, boy, you're disrespecting men, whether it be a man to a man, a man in a relationship, a man at work, it always comes down a lot of times. Or to that ego, which is you either feel respected or disrespected. Does that have to do with scarring? What's your take on what do men really want? [00:33:32] Speaker E: All right, so we dive in, deep into the word disrespect, right? What do men really want? Again, we're not speaking for all men, right? But we're going based on our relationship with ourselves because we are men first. And then, of course, we interact with a lot of men. So I'll give it from a personal point of view. First, disrespect for me has evolved over the years, right? In terms of, from relationships around people, et cetera. And I'll give the example. We spoke about the phone before. To me, if you're on the phone while we're talking, is a disrespect. Unless, of course, you say, well, I'm doing something, but I'm listening to you. If you give a caveat, I would take it. But if in the middle we speak and you just look down at your phone, to me it indicates that whatever you're doing, more important than me. Now here that part, the more important part. So now I'll segue to a conversation I had with an inmate who he was doing a robbery. And in the robbery, he killed, I think, two of the victims. And, you know, we always say, well, just rob the person. Why you kill them. And I had the opportunity to ask him, well, why he killed them and what he said. Now, I'm not justifying what he said, but essentially what he said is that they disrespected him. Right. Because what he wanted, and this might even go a little deeper. Now, a lot of criminals I've spoken to, what comes down to when they commit crime is at that moment, all the attention is on them. Now, here, we're telling you this here, pause. Reason, because this is deep. They didn't get certain recognition when they were young. Recognition, respect, right? So sometimes even unconsciously, when they commit in the crime and all attention is on them, they are the center of attention, the attention that they may have not gotten from, whether it is parents, et cetera. So when he said he was disrespected, the people didn't react the way he thought they should react. So it's not an indictment. They're not to say they cost him or anything like that. He is the perpetrator and they're supposed to react a certain way because they have to respect him. And respect, in his mind, looked a certain way, but they didn't react. [00:35:49] Speaker A: That power to cry, to do all of these different things that they may have, may have asserted themselves. [00:35:54] Speaker E: Yes, he said one person did not cry. He said one person did not look frightened. Right. Now inside, the person could be frightened, but they did not look frightened. And I saying that because even to us, we personally have our own perceptions of respect. And I will segue again. My belief is common sense does not exist. What exists is your sense and my sense. So it's not even it common we have different values, different norms, et cetera. So we view the world through different lenses. So now if you're talking about respect and disrespect, we view it through different lenses. And it may not always be through the lenses of being from a healthy place because I don't know anybody who had a perfect childhood, right? So therefore, there are scars that we carry. There are things that we did not get that we would want in terms of our emotional and mental development. So now when somebody may be saying, you know what, I was looking on your phone because you're saying a topic, and I really want to research it for you, to help you. Their place may be coming from a sincere place, but as soon as I see you on your phone, it automatically is disrespect as soon as I see. And this is one I encounter a lot in couples therapy. Your facial reaction, even my wife, because sometimes I have a stoic face. In terms of human profession, I don't react. I would say I thought it would help in those endeavors, but sometimes wife would say, you're not listening. I never even seen a reaction from you. So now that could be deemed disrespect. And then if I do something, she can say, well, wait, ting your face. So for. [00:37:32] Speaker B: Right. [00:37:32] Speaker E: So it is that perception of, well, you don't like what I say. Or even the facial reaction could be rudeness. Because I've encountered this a lot with parents and children. The child really sincere are not being rude to my parents and not showing any disrespect to my parents. But that parent perception is either. Well, you shouldn't have no reaction at all. But then, of course, when they have no reaction. So if you understand what I'm saying and if we bring it back to men. [00:38:01] Speaker A: So your neolinguistics are important. And like, even in your profession, you have to be mindful as to how the other person may interpret certain things. So you may be, like you said, listening. But to me, for example, when you on your phone, it made me feel, if we're talking about feelings that I chose to feel, and that means I was out of control because I've given off my emotion to someone else to determine what I felt about myself. So, yes, in other words, I chose to give off that control. The student has become the master. But in seriousness, at that point, when you say you're listening to me, it's like it's an option. Because had it been someone maybe of. Of maybe another stature, seeing something that was really important to you at that point, you'd have given me that full attention. I'm just talking about into how many people interpret women say a lot of times that I'm nobody's option. I am the first choice. And if you're not giving me that attention or you're not giving me all your love in different aspects of it, I'm nobody's option. But again, that's for another conversation. I want to come back to the fact that it comes down then to a certain level of scarring or your societal influences growing up as to how you perceive respect and disrespect. And also, more importantly, when we ask the question, what do men want? Respect is huge on the agenda because it strikes the ego. And what Niall might feel disrespected by, I might have no issue with vice versa. What Niall may feel respected by, I might feel disrespected. So I want you to really kind of dig deeper into that for us and hear from the other guys. And you said something at the start, and I just want to once again say it because we haven't said it in a while, is that we are not speaking on behalf of all men. We are a few men speaking to all men. So this might be my opinion, but it's my thought on the topic. [00:40:27] Speaker E: I see this often on the show on this conversation. Being true to yourself, I think should be our highest priority. As ma'am, right now, I'm talking to myself to it, because sometimes I have difficulty in just being honest, even if I perceive the person mightn't take it in the way I want them to take it. Because even those cars disrespect and scars. How would we even heal or even elaborate on those things if we're not honest? So you said you're on your phone. If you didn't communicate to me, I would not have even been aware of that. And I say, I noticed that even with my wife, because sometimes when she invited, when you do this, it indicates this to me. So we had a conversation. Is this your intent? And then she understood. So then now when even sometimes I go on my phone when she's speaking, we already had that conversation, so she understands, so now it's no longer disrespect. But let's just say if I didn't say anything, if I wasn't honest, because a lot of us may just keep things inside and we let it ruminate and let it fest and then say, just say, well, she's a disrespectful person, or he's a disrespectful person, not actually having that conversation. Now that is how common sense is formed. Because now two people speak. So the sense becomes common between two of them, but it's not innate. So I put in that way. And then I want to add to what is powerful. [00:41:54] Speaker A: You impress yourself, Dave, I'm sure. Right. I realize that. And the reason why that is powerful, because you touched a nerve with me with regards to something that I go through very often where many people feel disrespected by sometimes my disposition with them, right. And whereas I know it's passion to that person's aggression. So you might find I don't like how he spoke to me, or I might be speaking to wifey. And she, as you said, the sense is now common. She now understands that when I say something, it's not out of aggression, but to someone else hearing to them, it's like we talked to a sore, but it was just said there was no malice, there was no aggression by it. So now, even more so when I'm speaking to people, because of the depth of my voice, I almost go through some levels of anxiety where I'm speaking to you. And I'm like, so when you hear, people know, when you hear this rambling, sometimes the rambling is because I'm trying to bring context, trying to make you aware that, hey, I'm not seeing this in an offensive way. I'm not seeing this to hurt you. I'm not seeing this to disrespect you. I'm just seeing something. [00:43:15] Speaker C: One thing I've learned being in the social realm. And this will carry a long way for people. And it's a skill that you have to derive, and it's one that take everybody neutral, because every person is going to be different. And like you say, everybody will be disrespected differently. And the way that you take something from someone might be weird, maybe out of place, but that test may be their character, for example, like yourself. And it all comes down to you, how you reacted. And if you react to that in the manner of. But he realized that I disrespectful or if it is that you want to be like, it is not my concern. That is a person how he is. If this that how he is. If somebody has to speak to him, they'll speak to him. But for your inner peace, accept the people for how they are sometimes, but. [00:44:03] Speaker A: As a chosen feeling crazy. What I'm saying to you is you may interpret that that is how he is, right, but that is how you are. But that mightn't be how I'm feeling. [00:44:12] Speaker C: We are trying to degrade anyone. [00:44:14] Speaker A: Correct? [00:44:14] Speaker C: Right. So you want everybody to understand you come in common. Right. [00:44:18] Speaker A: I like it. [00:44:19] Speaker C: Again, let's not do this in our mind. [00:44:22] Speaker B: Should I? [00:44:23] Speaker C: But. [00:44:25] Speaker A: I didn't do so. Okay. And I think that's important because if you take it from a neutral perspective, then you're still subject to interpreting how that person is. And I'm not going to choose to feel a particular way. But it comes back down to that. Mightn't even be the way I was. [00:44:48] Speaker C: Actually feeling in the, then after you're asking for somebody to judge you, you see if you stay neutral, if that's how robot is, robot is that, that is how we react to get his things done. Let's go forward. How do you react to get your things done? And if we just respect everybody's way, how they get along, because we know obviously it has no malice. Like you said, we're not trying to disregard or degrade anyone. This is just the manner how they carry about themselves. But they always mean well. And I think this is something that people are always in their emotions because anything that gets so ticked to them, God, behavior is stupid, but they don't understand that if you look deep down inside, there's love still in that person. They don't look at you any differently. They're just passionate about what they do. They want it done, plain and simple. But it's just that how the person gets on. They just want to react to the person's emotion. [00:45:40] Speaker A: So we have another soft touch like with Arius where they want to make love. So this is crazy soft touch if. [00:45:48] Speaker C: It is that you want to stay seen correct as men. And this is what most fighters happen. Because before a fight happened, even happen, you could communicate it before. Because one thing I don't understand is did I say something to disrespect this person? And if you be a man about it and be like, hey, brother, if I disrespect you, sorry or not, they mean it. We're probably different in our manner, but let me talk to you, Lee rub, and you can save our life without. [00:46:11] Speaker A: But if you choose to feel that way or react on that, basically what you're doing is you're out of control. [00:46:17] Speaker C: You have a controlling emotions. [00:46:19] Speaker A: Again, as we always say in manhood, the conversation, this particular conversation needs to end, but it's a topic that needs to continue and we will discuss it more and more and more. So, gentlemen, what do men really want? Your final thoughts and your hands. I'd like you to close with that because you might come in with another common sense. [00:46:48] Speaker D: What do men really want? Just to keep it on the topic of respect. Personally I feel that. Let me go with what men should thrive for and it would be. I feel that a perceptive maturity. That way they could understand what someone else, the perception of someone else. And I feel that's where the key of communication comes in. And after that life is real easy because essentially what men want is just a peaceful life, no stress, balance. And I wish Zarius was here the time to hear this part because he said that he didn't feel that anybody would be special enough to spend forever with. But having a woman by your side, especially a good woman. Yeah, you would be a different type of man. You give a woman a seed of your plan and watch that grow into oak tree. And I feel that's really important to have. [00:47:55] Speaker C: I think what men really want is to become the best version of themselves, but they don't know how to. They want that stability to be that man that their father will or who they were, that mentorship, or make sure that the family that they have for the future have everything, or Gucci struggles that they don't and try to be the best version for their kids and be everyone, but they don't have the guidance. And I think that comes down to the fear of failure to actually dawn on them heavier than the possibility of becoming greater. So I think it's more of men just want to really find the real purpose of being a man long term and not just. [00:48:41] Speaker B: No. [00:48:43] Speaker A: You want to say why? Why do we place so much importance on respect or even more so? I'm being disrespected and act accordingly. [00:48:57] Speaker E: And I'm going to tie that answer into both of your answer. Because we place that important on disrespect, because we want to be free, we want to be accepted for who we are by the outside world. But the thing is, if we don't accept ourselves for who we are inside, then we force in it on others. So I would say not necessarily know what men want versus to get what we want. We should develop the courage to be exactly who we are, to be the courage to be your true self. Your true self may be flawed, you may have these scars, but if you're honest about it, even if it's to yourself, you're able now to open it, you're able to face it and become better. Instead of us trying to make everybody around us respect us or make everybody around us accept us. [00:49:55] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:49:58] Speaker A: A lot of nuggets in there. A lot of nuggets in there. Making sense. Common. That's a good one. That's a big one for me. So what do men want? I hope we've touched on, maybe given some sort of perspective. What do I want is to be the best version of myself and to leave a room better than. It may sound cliche, but to leave a room, a place, a legacy, better than I found it, a positive impact. And for the almighty to say, hey, you did well. That's ultimately what I want and what I would strive to be. So, Niall. Crazy Johanse, always a pleasure. This was a really good topic, manhood. Thanks for joining.